GG's,

> 
>> http://oldetoolshop.com/forsale/april/cooperstool0401a.jpg
>> 
> That is a Cooper's Bung Borer, used to make a tapered hole mid-point in a
barrel stave.

Just noticed a subtly in the photo.

Look at the "business end" of the auger. Note the graceful backward-curving lips
to sever the grain.

This is a "Cook's Patent" auger, which IIRC is also called a "Gedge" bit.

This design is good for a Bung Auger, because it would _tend_ to prevent chips
escaping into the barrel or keg: One advantage of Cook's Patent is that only the
auger lead screw goes deeper than the body of the hole.

Cook's bits never caught on because they are diabolically difficult to sharpen
correctly.  The concavely-curved inner edges of the lips must be brought to
razor sharpness.  Ask yourself how you would do this!

Hence,they are fairly rare in the world of OLDTOOLS.

John Ruth

I have one of these.  I tried to bore a bunghole, and let me tell you, I have so
much respect for the men who had to bore those bungholes.   They must have slept
hard at the end of the day.

There was a beer named after this tool, and you can see my tool on the label.  

https://groups.io/g/oldtools/photo/274945/3782644?p=Name%2C%2C%2C20%2C2%2C0%2C0

On 5/14/2024 8:21 AM, John Ruth wrote:
>>> http://oldetoolshop.com/forsale/april/cooperstool0401a.jpg
>>>
>> That is a Cooper's Bung Borer, used to make a tapered hole mid-point in a
barrel stave.

I'm not sure what all the confusion is about, but that is a bung auger. 
This is a James Swan, but they were made by others, and in a variety of
sizes.  This style is late 19th Century and was made well into the 20th
Century.  Prior ones were hand forged.  There are also a couple or 4
patented adjustable ones out there.

This is a bung or tap.  They come in number of sizes as well, this is on
the smaller side.  Some of the later ones had metal spigots.

http://oldetoolshop.com/jointer/miscpics/bung0801.jpg

This is a bung mallet.  Used both for knocking the plug in the top of
the barrel and later the bung.  Note the thin whip like handle.

http://oldetoolshop.com/jointer/miscpics/coopertool1001a.jpg
http://oldetoolshop.com/jointer/miscpics/coopertool1001b.jpg

Years back I had a signed one from a brewery down in Allentown PA, but I
can't find the pictures of it.

> This is a "Cook's Patent" auger, which IIRC is also called a "Gedge" bit.
>
> This design is good for a Bung Auger, because it would _tend_ to prevent chips
escaping into the barrel or keg: One advantage of Cook's Patent is that only the
auger lead screw goes deeper than the body of the hole.
>
> Cook's bits never caught on because they are diabolically difficult to sharpen
correctly.  The concavely-curved inner edges of the lips must be brought to
razor sharpness.  Ask yourself how you would do this!
>
> Hence,they are fairly rare in the world of OLDTOOLS.

I've had a few come through with the patent mark on them.

Tony (still trying to get enough coffee in me to kickstart the day)

--
Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/tonyseomusic
Old River Hard Goods
http://oldetoolshop.com/

Here is a catalog cut from the first Swan catalog on ITCL.

https://archive.org/details/JamesSwanCoPremiumMechanicsTools1899/page/n29/mode/1
up


Marked with hole sizes in to 2”.

Kirk Eppler in Half Moon Bay, CA, rooting around in the tool pile last
night for Starrett things,

Sent from my iPad, apologies for the Auto Correct errors. Kirk


On Tue, May 14, 2024 at 6:52 AM Tony Seo via groups.io  wrote:

> On 5/14/2024 8:21 AM, John Ruth wrote:
> >>> http://oldetoolshop.com/forsale/april/cooperstool0401a.jpg
> >>>
> >> That is a Cooper's Bung Borer, used to make a tapered hole mid-point in
> a barrel stave.
>
> I'm not sure what all the confusion is about, but that is a bung auger.
> This is a James Swan, but they were made by others, and in a variety of
> sizes.  This style is late 19th Century and was made well into the 20th
> Century.  Prior ones were hand forged.  There are also a couple or 4
> patented adjustable ones out there.


-- 
Kirk Eppler in Half Moon Bay, CA 

In the coopering research I've done since 2014 this is the first time
I've seen anything called a "bung or tap auger."  Either it's for boring
a bung hole for filling a cask, bored into the strongest stave, or it's
a tap auger for boring a tapered hole in the head of a cask for setting
a tap.  These, classically, are two separate tools, and so regarded.  

So from my perspective (a solid mid 19th Century perspective) Swan is
advertising a cooper-esque "multi tool."  It's kinda bizarre, since the
cooper builds the cask and bores the bung hole, the vintner fills the
cask with wine, and the bar man drills the head and installs the tap. 

When you get right down to it, the tap auger isn't really a cooper's
tool. 

The Swan catalog here dates from 1904.  This style of taper auger is too
recent for my use -- interpreting mid 19th Century coopering (and
general wood work). 

Mike in Woodland

Michael sez.. 
> and the bar man drills the head and installs the tap. 

Really?  I don’t claim to know, but Barrels being returnable for re-filling I
assumed that the tap hole was made by the Cooper, and the cellar man drove it
into the barrel as he whacked the tap into place.  Or is that a modern idea?  Or
do I just not know what I’m talking about?

I have (somewhere) a bung hole border, which does not have an auger nose.  Used
it to produce tapered holes in seats to match same taper legs made on a pole
lather or similar whirling workpiece device.

Richard Wilson
yorkshireman Galoot in Northumbria



> On 14 May 2024, at 17:07, Michael Blair  wrote:
> 
> In the coopering research I've done since 2014 this is the first time
> I've seen anything called a "bung or tap auger."  Either it's for boring
> a bung hole for filling a cask, bored into the strongest stave, or it's
> a tap auger for boring a tapered hole in the head of a cask for setting
> a tap.  These, classically, are two separate tools, and so regarded.  
> 
> So from my perspective (a solid mid 19th Century perspective) Swan is
> advertising a cooper-esque "multi tool."  It's kinda bizarre, since the
> cooper builds the cask and bores the bung hole, the vintner fills the
> cask with wine, and the bar man drills the head and installs the tap. 
> 
> When you get right down to it, the tap auger isn't really a cooper's
> tool. 
> 
> The Swan catalog here dates from 1904.  This style of taper auger is too
> recent for my use -- interpreting mid 19th Century coopering (and
> general wood work). 
> 
> Mike in Woodland
> 
> On 2024-05-14 07:19, Kirk Eppler via groups.io wrote:
> 



-- 
Yorkshireman Galoot
in the most northerly county, farther north even than Yorkshire
IT #300

GG's

With much snippage as per FAQ

> On May 14, 2024, at 5:19 PM, Richard Wilson  wrote:
> 
> Michael sez..
>> and the bar man drills the head and installs the tap.
> 
> Really?  I don’t claim to know, but Barrels being returnable for re-filling I
assumed that the tap hole was made by the Cooper, and the cellar man drove it
into the barrel as he whacked the tap into place.  Or is that a modern idea?  Or
do I just not know what I’m talking about?

In my 1960's boyhood experience, limited to wooden Schaefer kegs, the wooden
faucet, just like the one in Tony Seo's photo, was driven into a steel-lined
hole in the head of the cask.  This tap hole had a cork in it which was driven
into the barrel when tapping it.

The tap hole in the head was diametrically opposite from the wide stave having
the filling hole.

I'm learning a whole corrected nomenclature from this thread; just the sort of
knowledge that draws me to OLDTOOLS.

I had mistakenly thought that the term "bung" was restricted to the large
filling hole in the midpoint of the barrel.

The term "tap" was used to refer to the wooden faucet itself.  This was
furnished by the Beer Distributor, and returned with the empty keg.

The steel-lined hole in the head was referred to as the "tap hole."

I stand corrected! Various sources are confirming the meanings elucidated in
this bthread!

OLDTOOLS, where quaint and curious lore is always on tap !!!

John Ruth
Metuchen, NJ

Resonding to John’s comment..
> OLDTOOLS, where quaint and curious lore is always on tap !!!


‘Bung’ is another interesting word.  Apart from its use in the world of
politicians, where it indicates payment, it’s also the description of the thing
that keeps the water out in small boats.  The kind that you wish to empty after
meeting with exciting waves that want to climb in and come along for the ride,
or maybe the sort that live outdoors in downpours.

The bung being the object that fills a hole.  

Or maybe in he political world you slip someone a bung to plug up the spray of
unwelcome truths….

Back to the plot - the bung borer is a slow taper, and capable therefore of
remaking a bung hole to clean edged liquid proof fitting of the bung, or, as may
be nowadays, to fit the metal ring tightly ‘just so’
The built in auger is a cruel way to deny a man the pleasure of owning TWO
braces though.




Richard Wilson
yorkshireman Galoot in Northumbria



> On 15 May 2024, at 01:09, John Ruth  wrote:
> 
> GG's
> 
> With much snippage as per FAQ
> 
>> On May 14, 2024, at 5:19 PM, Richard Wilson  wrote:
>> 
>> Michael sez..
>>> and the bar man drills the head and installs the tap.
>> 
>> Really?  I don’t claim to know, but Barrels being returnable for re-filling I
assumed that the tap hole was made by the Cooper, and the cellar man drove it
into the barrel as he whacked the tap into place.  Or is that a modern idea?  Or
do I just not know what I’m talking about?
> 
> In my 1960's boyhood experience, limited to wooden Schaefer kegs, the wooden
faucet, just like the one in Tony Seo's photo, was driven into a steel-lined
hole in the head of the cask.  This tap hole had a cork in it which was driven
into the barrel when tapping it.
> 
> The tap hole in the head was diametrically opposite from the wide stave having
the filling hole.
> 
> I'm learning a whole corrected nomenclature from this thread; just the sort of
knowledge that draws me to OLDTOOLS.
> 
> I had mistakenly thought that the term "bung" was restricted to the large
filling hole in the midpoint of the barrel.
> 
> The term "tap" was used to refer to the wooden faucet itself.  This was
furnished by the Beer Distributor, and returned with the empty keg.
> 
> The steel-lined hole in the head was referred to as the "tap hole."
> 
> I stand corrected! Various sources are confirming the meanings elucidated in
this bthread!
> 
> OLDTOOLS, where quaint and curious lore is always on tap !!!
> 
> John Ruth
> Metuchen, NJ
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 



-- 
Yorkshireman Galoot
in the most northerly county, farther north even than Yorkshire
IT #300

Gentle Galoots:
  
Learning so much--

   In the fifties, my grandmother used to threaten to 'go get' her bungstarter,
which my grandfather had left behind. He was an industrial arts teacher at a
tiny Oklahoma college, and probably DID go upside a head now and then. I've been
told that they are made with that shape to strike between the fingers while the
bung is positioned in the bunghole.
 
  I've I had not heard of kegs and barrels arriving already tapped, but sure,
when beer's travelling just across town it would be a great 'marketing move' to
deliver ice-house cold with the tap outlet already bored and corked, proper tap
supplied by the vendor. Not everybody enjoyed the tapping task, or was even up
to it, especially not the repositioning of the barrel. If it's 55 gallons of
maple syrup, it's 600 pounds easy---
  
  OTOH---When the teamsters were driving maple syrup and bourbon to load on
ships heading across the Atlantic---or rolling it across the plains in wagons---
from Vermont and Kentuck, I bet the 'tapping' was generally left to the buyer at
the receiving end.
   
  And if you wanted a clean-boring dependable tool; "Every Galoot Knows" you
could not outdo a Swan.

                         enquiring minds *still* want to know----gam in OlyWA
                       




 

    On Tuesday, May 14, 2024 at 09:07:07 AM PDT, Michael Blair 
wrote:
 
 In the coopering research I've done since 2014 this is the first time
I've seen anything called a "bung or tap auger."  Either it's for boring
a bung hole for filling a cask, bored into the strongest stave, or it's
a tap auger for boring a tapered hole in the head of a cask for setting
a tap.  These, classically, are two separate tools, and so regarded.  

So from my perspective (a solid mid 19th Century perspective) Swan is
advertising a cooper-esque "multi tool."  It's kinda bizarre, since the
cooper builds the cask and bores the bung hole, the vintner fills the
cask with wine, and the bar man drills the head and installs the tap. 

When you get right down to it, the tap auger isn't really a cooper's
tool. 

The Swan catalog here dates from 1904.  This style of taper auger is too
recent for my use -- interpreting mid 19th Century coopering (and
general wood work). 

Mike in Woodland

As Gary has introduced more about barrel tapping…
(Snippage)
>   I've I had not heard of kegs and barrels arriving already tapped,
>    
>                          enquiring minds *still* want to know----gam in OlyWA

As has been mentioned, lucky ex-bourbon barrels enjoy a second life in Scotland,
where there was, and maybe still is, a flourishing industry in avoiding punitive
excise duty.  In the days of transport by train for finished goods leaving the
bonded store a competent cooper could be employed to while away time between
unscheduled stops at signals by driving down one of the hoops, drilling the
stave below the hoop line, drawing off a few drams, and hiding his work with a
tapered dowel, a few blows on the driver and replacing the hoop.  A smear of
muck and the theft is invisible.

- Just one of those little intriguing sidelines on skills that is unlikely to be
of practical application for me.  Despite a new distillery having started up in
nearby Wooler.


Incidentally - I found a full set of coopers tools for sale whilst rummaging
around as a result of this thread.

https://www.oldtoolstore.co.uk/english-coopers-tool-collection-7375-p.asp

https://archive.org/details/white-coopers-tools-catalogue-1912/page/22/mode/2up

https://williammarplesandsons.com/coopers-tools/




Richard Wilson
yorkshireman Galoot in sunny Northumbria





-- 
Yorkshireman Galoot
in the most northerly county, farther north even than Yorkshire
IT #300

Driving down one of the hoops?  'Spect you would get beer oozing out. 
Etc.  Far more work than necessary.  Just pop out the bung (just a
hammer blow above or below the bung hole), draw off your few drams, and
knock the bung back in place.  Deed done. 

Mike in Woodland

Ah - you haven’t accounted for the excise seals.    Her/His Majesty’s customer
and Excise officers have thought of the possibility of using the opening’s
provided.


Your task, if you choose to accept it, is to steal whisky without leaving a
trace.  Or, of course, being found and dead with.  Seriously, as you are
stealing tax money the King wants for himself.



:- ) 
  
Richard Wilson
yorkshireman Galoot in Northumbria



> On 18 May 2024, at 12:56, Michael Blair  wrote:
> 
> Driving down one of the hoops?  'Spect you would get beer oozing out. 
> Etc.  Far more work than necessary.  Just pop out the bung (just a
> hammer blow above or below the bung hole), draw off your few drams, and
> knock the bung back in place.  Deed done. 
> 
> Mike in Woodland
> 
> On 2024-05-18 02:29, Richard Wilson wrote:
> 
>> In the days of transport by train for finished goods leaving the bonded store
a competent cooper could be employed to while away time between unscheduled
stops at signals by driving down one of the hoops, drilling the stave below the
hoop line, drawing off a few drams, and hiding his work with a tapered dowel, a
few blows on the driver and replacing the hoop.  A smear of muck and the theft
is invisible.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 



-- 
Yorkshireman Galoot
in the most northerly county, farther north even than Yorkshire
IT #300

Huh. And here all along the Bourbon Trail the docents have been calling the
evaporative loss in a barrel "the Angel's share".
Some Angels.

On 5/18/24 07:56, Michael Blair wrote:

> 
> Driving down one of the hoops?  'Spect you would get beer oozing out. 
> Etc.  Far more work than necessary.  Just pop out the bung (just a
> hammer
> blow above or below the bung hole), draw off your few drams, and
> knock the
> bung back in place.  Deed done. 
> 
> Mike in Woodland
> 
> On 2024-05-18 02:29,
> Richard Wilson wrote:
> 
> 
>> In the days of transport by train for finished goods leaving the bonded
>> store a competent cooper could be employed to while away time between
>> unscheduled stops at signals by driving down one of the hoops, drilling
>> the stave below the hoop line, drawing off a few drams, and hiding his
>> work with a tapered dowel, a few blows on the driver and replacing the
>> hoop.  A smear of muck and the theft is invisible.
>> 
> 
> 

-- 
John Pesut
Boardman, Ohio