OldTools Archive
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274172 | Dan Beck <drumsandbacon@g...> | 2021‑07‑26 | Ramia workbenches |
Does anyone have personal experience with Ramia workbenches? I’m considering purchasing one, but I can’t find any real world reviews. If anyone has any experience or info about them that they’d we willing to share, I’d really appreciate it. Thanks! -- I'm a simple man. I like pretty dark-haired women and breakfast food. |
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274173 | William Fariss | 2021‑07‑26 | Re: Ramia workbenches |
From what I see, they are nothing more than the usual high priced piece of wooden trash masquerading as a workbench. Sent from BlueMail |
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274175 | Dan Beck <drumsandbacon@g...> | 2021‑07‑27 | Re: Ramia workbenches |
William - what makes you say that? Have you used one? -- I'm a simple man. I like pretty dark-haired women and breakfast food. |
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274176 | Dan Beck <drumsandbacon@g...> | 2021‑07‑27 | Re: Ramia workbenches |
I guess I should give a little bit more info. I have a temporary bench I built but it no longer meets my needs. I have a small space and therefore the biggest my bench can be is five feet. I was completely planning on building a Nicholson style bench (a la Mike Siemsen) but with the cost of wood these days, it made me consider this bench. I also have a decent amount of work being generated by my side hustle so I am having trouble legitimately finding the time to build myself a bench. This Ramos bench is made out of beech by a family company in the Czech Republic and being sold by Highland Woodworking, Rockler, etc so I *expect* it to be well made. However, the legs do seem undersized so it has me questioning. -- I'm a simple man. I like pretty dark-haired women and breakfast food. |
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274177 | John Ruth <johnrruth@h...> | 2021‑07‑27 | Re: Ramia workbenches |
GG's: I wouldn't know a Ramia workbench if it jumped up and bit me, but that's not going to stop me from making the following comments! WEIGHT. MASS. These are keys to a satisfactory workbench. You do not want the bench to move while you are whaling away on a big firmer chisel. You don't want it to rock to the left as you push that extra-wide Norris smoother from the right. When you read the weight specification of a commercial bench, distinguish "weight of bench" from "shipping weight." The latter obviously includes packaging, which might be substantial for any imported bench. ( I've seen "torsion box" bench designs which are very stiff but don't weigh much. These need "ballast," but might be quite satisfactory. ) A gratuitous comment about lumber prices: it doesn't have to be new lumber. If you can get permission, many businesses discard pallets, skids, etc. Demolition. Craigslist. Local sawmills. I've had several benches over the years, so unless you are a very senior citizen, it's unlikely that any bench is your "final" bench. So, don't obsess about it. When I moved into my current home, I bought a "Whitegate" tropical hardwood bench to bootstrap getting the workshop up and running. Certainly not a great bench, but it would be a place to build a great bench. That was always a pipe dream until I lucked upon a terrific antique bench at an auction. John Ruth "He who would a good bench win Must split thick, and hew thin" -Underhill |
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274178 | Spike <spikethebike@c...> | 2021‑07‑27 | Re: Ramia workbenches |
Good day Toolies! The problem with that bench is obviously the skinny legs. The solution is some sheet goods applied to the back and sides. Make the base into a rigid box and Robert is your mother’s brother. This also addresses the mass issue, somewhat. Best, Spike Sent from the seat of my pants |
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274179 | James <jlb5542@g...> | 2021‑07‑27 | Re: Ramia workbenches |
What is it that you have time to do? Seems like building a bench is going to take away from the side gig. The Hoffman and Hammer premium german is on sale, even. Let go of the romance of building your own - that just sells books for C.S. |
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274180 | Paul Gardner <yoyopg@g...> | 2021‑07‑27 | Re: Ramia workbenches |
Hey Dan, The biggest issue I see with this bench is mass and the spindly undercarriage. This doesn't mean you can't "fix" the issues with amendments to the bench but you will be investing time and material to do so. Then again, you may be able to get around some of these deficiencies if you decide to attach the back end of the bench to the wall of your shop. This wouldn't work well for me but your mileage may vary. I did a shallow dive into the interwebs looking for pictures and video of this bench and didn't find exactly what I was hoping to see. However, you can see indications of the issues that will drive many people crazy in this video. https://youtu.be/4xRDdv8UI7A?t=322 Even when taking shallow passes with a sharp iron on a forgiving species you can see movement in this bench. And the knockdown construction of this ensures this movement will only amplify over the course of successive planning sessions. It came as no surprise to me that they decided against showing a piece being scrubbed to dimension in the video. Also, if you clamp to your bench top, the underside of this bench is also constructed to make that frustrating. I had a Lervad for years before the bench I have now. I ended up filling the voids on the underside of the bench with Doug Fir to add mass and allow me to clamp at any point on the bench using common "f" style clamps. I also completely rebuilt the undercarriage. I'm not sure what kind of time pressure you are under but even in Old Tool heck out west we see equal or better benches come up on Craigslist regularly at 1/3rd that price or less. In many of those cases the vise is worth the price and you are getting the bench for free. Good luck with whatever path you choose. Paul, in SF |
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274181 | Paul Honore <lawnguy44@g...> | 2021‑07‑27 | Re: Ramia workbenches |
I'm not trying to be funny but have you looked at the Harbor Freight model? https://www.harborfreight.com/tool-storage- organization/workbenches/workbenches-1/60-in-4-drawer-hardwood- workbench-63395.html At $159, doesn't look all that bad. The reviews (if you can trust them) are positive and with a few modifications like a front mounted vise and some more weight, it might do the job. Paul H. |
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274183 | gtgrouch@r... | 2021‑07‑27 | Re: Ramia workbenches |
I have a Horror Freight lookalike. The top is thin, and the thickness in mine is from the apron attached all around it. It's also light. It's a good start, but it will need significant effort to remake it from a 'bench-shaped object' into a real bench. Mine is a keeper though. It was given by my wife, who isn't around to give me anything more. YMMV, Gary Katsanis Albion New York, USA -----------------------------------------From: "Paul Honore" To: oldtools@g... Cc: Sent: Tuesday July 27 2021 11:42:50AM Subject: Re: [oldtools] Ramia workbenches I'm not trying to be funny but have you looked at the Harbor Freight model? https://www.harborfreight.com/tool-storage- organization/workbenches/workbenches-1/60-in-4-drawer-hardwood- workbench-63395.html /> At $159, doesn't look all that bad. The reviews (if you can trust them) are positive and with a few modifications like a front mounted vise and some more weight, it might do the job. Paul H. On 7/26/2021 7:20 PM, Dan Beck wrote: > Does anyone have personal experience with Ramia workbenches? I’m considering purchasing one, but I can’t find any real world reviews. If anyone has any experience or info about them that they’d we willing to share, I’d really appreciate it. Thanks! > Links: ------ [1] https://groups.io/g/oldtools/unsub |
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274185 | Dan Beck <drumsandbacon@g...> | 2021‑07‑27 | Re: Ramia workbenches |
Many interesting points being made. Thanks for everyone’s input. You haven’t helped me at all, lol. It seems the general consensus is that the legs don’t seem beefy enough so additional work would need to be done in order to modify it. At that point, I feel like I might as well just go with my original plan and build my own. -- I'm a simple man. I like pretty dark-haired women and breakfast food. |
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274187 | Stephen Rosenthal <srosenthal26@g...> | 2021‑07‑27 | Re: Ramia workbenches |
Dan, You may want to consider one of these as a temporary solution: http://blumtool.com/?page_id=50 I picked up the “Original” version for $150 on CL to use as a bench to build my regular bench. My main shop is at my property in Mendocino County, but I also have an apartment in San Francisco, where the Blum now permanently resides. It’s surprisingly very stable, although I sometimes add a couple of sandbags to the legs if I’m doing heavy planing. The Baltic Birch top is and will stay dead flat thanks to the torsion bar construction. It’s ideal for a small space as it can be set up or collapsed in a matter of minutes. I guess with shipping it’s not the cheapest, but just a thought. However, if you’re not in a rush I’d search CL everyday. In the Bay Area, used benches appear quite often. I was 3/4 of the way into building my bench when a near new Ulmia Ott appeared for $800. A few weeks later an 8’ Diefenbach with cabinet and drawers for $1100. Oh well. Steve |
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274188 | leeburk | 2021‑07‑27 | Re: Ramia workbenches |
Depending on which level of Ramia you buy, you would likely do better building your own.These type of benches tend to "walk around". I had one and ended up bolting it to the floor and then I cross braced the legs before I was anywhere near happy with it. Also I put in a stiffening shelf between the legs and put 200 pounds of weightlifting plates and all my metal planes on the shelf. The vises had their vices too. I still ended up making my own bench. |
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274189 | leeburk | 2021‑07‑27 | Re: Ramia workbenches |
I've had great luck building woodworking bench tops out of lengths of professional laminated 2x4 glulam. Mine is 50" long as I have a small shop and I installed 3 vises on it including a home made leg vise made with guides of 1/2" black pipe and pipe caps and a vise screw of course. It actually is my favorite of the vises. I got the glulam free off a contractors scrap pile as it apparently was the cutoff from a support beam in the house he was building. At 50 inches it was too small to use anywhere else in a house. This thing is heavy and about 20" wide and 3 1/2" thick. I put 4x4 legs on it without needing an apron as there was enough thickness to mortise them into the underside. I cut out openings appropriate for my pattern maker's vise to mount and a big, old, beefy Columbian vise on the other end. Leg vise too as I said. And I could put dog holes anywhere and many of them. The dog holes and the 3 1/2" top thickness also allows use of the J shaped type of clamp that fits in a dog hole and can be so handy. |
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274198 | Dan Beck <drumsandbacon@g...> | 2021‑07‑27 | Re: Ramia workbenches |
I’d love to see some photos of this bench! -- I'm a simple man. I like pretty dark-haired women and breakfast food. |
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274208 | galoot@l... | 2021‑07‑27 | Re: Ramia workbenches |
Quoting Dan Beck |
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274209 | Kirk Eppler | 2021‑07‑27 | Re: Ramia workbenches |
On Tue, Jul 27, 2021 at 8:21 AM Paul Gardner |
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274227 | Brian Ward <bri@a...> | 2021‑07‑28 | Re: Ramia workbenches |
Hi Dan, I think you've gotten some good advice so far. Because your situation sort of reminds me of where I was when I first started out, I had a look at this thing (I'm assuming that it's the "Advanced 1500?") to see how it might compare to my first (weird) workbench. The bench's base does look a bit flimsy-looking for tougher hand work. In particular, the dowel joints that hold the tops and bottoms of the trestles to the legs are not going to cut the mustard. It really needs side stretchers (or something of that nature) to keep it from racking front-to-back. That's an easy add. The stretchers in the front and rear might actually be adequate (see below for knockdown blurb). The legs themselves look just a tad skinny for planing; they seem to be flexing at the end of Highland's assembly video. You could laminate something to them to fix that. They state that the top is 30mm (~1 3/8), beech, with aprons around the edges. That thickness is actually quite similar to my first bench. What kind of weirds me out is the way that the top rests on the legs. It seems that only the apron rests on the trestle tops, with a sort of weird hollow between. With a benchtop of that thickness, it seems that you'd only really be able to pound on stuff around the apron near the legs. I dunno. If I were in your shoes, and knowing what I know now, I would still build my own. Perhaps relevantly, I made a curious experiment last year that is a bit under four feet long with a 2.4" top: https://galoototron.com/tag/auxiliary-workbench/ I put it opposite my main workbench "temporarily," and ended up using it a lot more than I expected, especially after I made a "bench-on-bench" to go on top. I was worried that the top wouldn't be thick enough, but that was unfounded. This got me thinking that if I'd made a slightly longer version of something like this for my first workbench, with a bench-on-bench, it might have been... "better" somehow? Well, I dunno, it's not like I can go back and change it. And I've had the same manner of space constraints as you until very recently. So space constraints actually relate to knockdown benches, and here's my two cents. A knockdown workbench can be just as sturdy as anything else, but you cannot skimp on the size of your components or your joinery. Those stretchers and legs need to be beefy, and tenoning the legs to the top is preferred even if you don't glue them. My main workbench is knockdown. But here's the thing--I've never actually knocked it down for any of the three moves that it's undergone since I built it. It took me a long time to guess why. I think it's because it's not very big (a six-footer, and not terribly deep), so it's generally easier to carry and manipulate through doorways and staircases than something that's more difficult to flip upright and turn. |
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274228 | Bill Ghio | 2021‑07‑28 | Re: Ramia workbenches |
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274229 | Bill Ghio | 2021‑07‑28 | Re: Ramia workbenches |
> On Jul 28, 2021, at 2:18 PM, Brian Ward |
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274230 | galoot@l... | 2021‑07‑28 | Re: Ramia workbenches |
Quoting "Bill Ghio via groups.io" |
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274231 | Frank Filippone <bmwred735i@g...> | 2021‑07‑28 | Re: Ramia workbenches |
It is not hard to build a workbench that is durable, stable, and cheap (estimate is $150 if you have to buy all the lumber.... I used some scraps to cut this cost) . It will not take long. Maybe 2 weekends? My secondary bench is made from common construction lumber, with a 3 ply laminated 3/4 Plywood top, 2 1/8 thick. Overall top size is 24x55 inches. the plywood top is significantly less work than a glued up traditional vertically laminated top..... it is a compromise in time and long term functionality, but it gets you going fast. At 2 1/8 inches thick it is no slouch.... if you want it thicker, add a layer.... or two. It is not expensive to do this. It consists of 4x4 legs, notched at the top for a 2x4 "apron" with an additional notch about 6 inches from the ground for stability, to which I added a shelf and cabinet drawer free standing drawer box. The materials list would include 4x4x12' ( or shorter pieces) for the legs. ( about $30) 4x 2x4x8" ( used to cost about $3 each..... probably $23 each these days!) 2 sheets of 3/4 x 4x8 plywood, I used Home Depot Birch ply... which leaves a lot of scrap from which you make the drawer box. ( $54 each.) ( I also planned to add a 1/4 inch thick hardboard top for a really smooth and replaceable top surface, This has turned out to be a very good decision as I spilled a bunch of Danish oil on it the first time I used it...!)) Steps in the process: The very first thing to do is to purchase your vises. EVERYTHING depends on their size and mounting methods. Design it on paper.... your choice of vises will radically alter the size of your apron structure... mine has overhanging end and side to allow for the vise and to allow glue ups along the long side of the bench. My base measures 19x48. Note that ALL the apron measurements are relative to the outside of the legs..... and the legs themselves must be square but can be of differing thicknesses.... only the outside dimensions count. Cut to rough length all the 4x4 and 2x4. Then plane one edge of the top apron 2x4's to be sure straightness.... Plane the middle 2x4's on both edges to be parallel, straight, and the same size. Mark and notch about 3/4 to 1" deep the 4x4 to accept the 2x4's....about 4-6 inches from the foot end. These must fit quite well for stability. Notch the 4x4 at t he top end, but only about 3 inches down, to allow the apron parts to sit above the legs..... You do this to make sure the top has something flat and planar to be attached to. Same depth. All the 2x4 aprons are vertically half lapped in the corners, this eases all the corner overlap issues. Assemble with glue, 2 1/2 to 3" screws and dowels as locks. It will NEVER come apart.... The top is a 3 piece sandwich of plywood. I actually used some scraps to make up the middle core piece. Glue up on something flat and planar... a kitchen granite top is just about perfect. Use weight ( concrete blocks, old boxes of tools, or other) to supply the clamping pressure. Roll on the white/yellow glue using a paint roller... 9", 6", or whatever you got.....This gets it on fast and evenly If you are careful in the assembly, the edges will be pretty flush to each other..... Screw down the top to the apron ( from the bottom!) using really long screws or countersunk holes to allow for shorter screws to be used. the counter bore is a better idea. Or you could use a angled hole.... I added 3 construction joist hangers and short 2x4's cut to fit to make sure the plywood top did not sag anywhere. If you use a more traditional top, this is not necessary. Attach vise(s), drill holes in the top and legs to accommodate your chosen hold downs, make drawer box to ft using left over plywood..... Start working on your new bench..... Frank Filippone BMWRed735i@G... |
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274232 | Dan Beck <drumsandbacon@g...> | 2021‑07‑28 | Re: Ramia workbenches |
Thank you so much for all the opinions, advice, and info. This is an excellent group and I’m very glad to benefit from the deep knowledge found here. I’m going to stick with my original plan which is to build myself a Nicholson bench. Between the cost of wood and my general lack of time, I was *hoping* the Ramia bench might give me an easy out. But I think in the long run, building the Nicholson bench is definitely the better and smarter option. -- I'm a simple man. I like pretty dark-haired women and breakfast food. |
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274252 | scottg <scottg@s...> | 2021‑07‑30 | Re: Ramia workbenches |
I'm with several others here. If you only consider it a "starter kit" it can work. My buddy Dave bought a Harbor Freight and just added more wood. Since most of it doesn't show and is not subject to wear, any old used 2X4's will do. Don't need to be pretty. Legs will show, so you'd have to make something decorative out of it. Working our defects into features, well you might as well get used to it now..... ;) . Being on the lookout for better vises? Hey if you are a woodworker at all you are never past being on the lookout for better vises. haahhaaaha I'd take an Emmert in a heartbeat!! The crap vises they come with, well it'll teach you how to make vise crutches and such to stop the racking. We never get past that either. You can always use it as an assembly/paint/etc table when you build your real bench later. yours scott -- ******************************* Scott Grandstaff Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca 96039 scottg@s... http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/hpages/index.html |
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