OldTools Archive
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130371 | "Bruce Dissel" <brucedissel@h...> | 2004‑03‑09 | Bio-(and Shiney does pay) |
To all, Greetings from the desert SW.Been lurking a good while and thought I'd post a quck bio. Names Bruce Dissel and I live in the canyon country of SE Utah.I fight forest fires for a living summers and this gives me a lot of shop/tool hounding time otherwise.Enjoy making hardwood furniture and accesories.Main influence style-wise and plane-wise is Mr. Krenov.Made a plane kit from Ron Hock and starting to make more from scratch.Current old tool interest is small levels, which brings me to a question related to "Shiney does Pay"; Scored a Stratton Bros 10" # 10 for $60 recently.The brass is pretty well tarnished,has the ubiquitous bit of paint splatter but in really nice shape otherwise.I don't like my antiques to look new,either furniture or tools.Is there a way to clean up the brass a little bit without the scrubbed look?Also I know alcohol is a solvent for dried latex paint but worry about impacting the finish. Any suggestions welcome and sure enjoy the discussion group. Bruce |
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130433 | "John Sawchak" <jherbs@e...> | 2004‑03‑10 | RE: Bio-(and Shiney does pay) |
Hello Bruce You might try "Brasso" which is a brass polish with very very fine polishing grade grit. You should be able to easily control how aggressive it is because it is not at all very aggressive without considerable elbow grease. But its grit is finer and shouldn't show the scrubbed look you're worried about. BTW, I once polished a rosewood and brass handled pocketknife on a buffing wheel and it looked so bright and awkward afterward that I have never done it again since. The other product that springs to mind is "Bar Keeper's Friend" which comes in a gold looking container. It's a little bit like comet cleanser only milder (but I would say more abrasive than the brasso). I know its safe for small brass bar sinks. Rubbing compound used on car paint finishes might be another option. I would suspect most of it might even be milder than the brasso but it'd be thicker instead. You might even have some around your place now. You'd be surprised how many car waxes these days actually contain rubbing compound within their formula. Taking off a microscopic layer of paint helps brighten the finish. But I'd do some tests on some old brass first before taking it to the plane. I think horn players use brasso, too, IIRC. A lot of them don't like their horns too bright. Bruce said: I don't like my antiques to look new,either furniture or tools.Is there a way to clean up the brass a little bit without the scrubbed look? |
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130461 | PAUL MORIN <cantos@s...> | 2004‑03‑10 | Re: Bio-(and Shiney does pay) |
One antiques website I was on suggested using the RED rubbing compound Turtle Wax sells. They say to use an old soft cotton cloth (or a something like a sock), apply a small amount, and work it in until it looks 'burnished'. Then you use it to carefully work your item. It is supposed to remove only the dirt, without strippin the patina off, and is recommended over 0000 Steel wool & wax/spirits. Haven't tried it myself, but I did pick a tin up - it's only a couple bucks and should last forever. for what it's worth. paul morin calgary, ab www.cranialstorage.com/wood > You might try "Brasso" which is a brass polish with very very fine > polishing grade grit. The other product that springs to mind is "Bar > Keeper's Friend" which comes in a gold looking container. It's a > little bit like comet cleanser onlymilder |
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130462 | PAUL MORIN <cantos@s...> | 2004‑03‑10 | Re: Bio-(and Shiney does pay) |
Hmmmm.... just read the message someone else left about using the white (polishing), rather than the red (rubbing - about 220 grit). Think perhaps I will be exchanging my purchase then. Just wanted to repoint that out since it occured a bit before my post of possible mis-information. paul morin calgary, ab > One antiques website I was on suggested using the RED rubbing compound > Turtle Wax sells. They say to use an old soft cotton cloth (or a > something like a sock), apply a small amount, and work it in until it > looks 'burnished'. Then you use it to carefully work your item. > > It is supposed to remove only the dirt, without strippin the patina > off, and is recommended over 0000 Steel wool & wax/spirits. > |
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130456 | reeinelson@w... (Bob Nelson) | 2004‑03‑10 | RE: Bio-(and Shiney does pay) |
Hi John & All, As a former professional car polisher/waxer, I must file a correction to John's advice about using auto rubbing compound as a mildly abrasive cleaner. What John meant was auto "polishing" compound. Rubbing compound is a rusty red color stuff that's quite gritty and abrasive - in the 220 sandpaper range. Polishing compound is white, is quite mild, and is indeed mixed in with almost all currrent day waxes. Best Wishes, Bob |
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130470 | "Richard J. Hucker" <colhuck@n...> | 2004‑03‑10 | Re: Bio-(and Shiney does pay) |
It seems that the theme is "don't do as I do, do as I say. Tips on cleaning http://www.cranialstorage.com/wood/html/cleaning_your_plane.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "PAUL MORIN" |
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130492 | "John Sawchak" <jherbs@e...> | 2004‑03‑11 | RE: Bio-(and Shiney does pay) |
Sorry about that, thanks for the correction, Bob. Goes to show what happens to knowledge when I don't have occasion to personally use it very often. > [Original Message] > From: |
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130521 | Paul Morin <cantos@s...> | 2004‑03‑11 | Re: Bio-(and Shiney does pay) |
Hmmmm... not sure if that's a slam (not taking it as one unless I'm distinctly informed otherwise). I'm the first to admit I don't know everything, heck - I'll admit I don't know nuthin' about most things. Most of the info I've cobbled together on my site (and I state it fairly clearly) has come directly from spending a lot of time going through the archives of the old tool group. Most of the info has the archive number listed with it. I only recently ran across the suggestion to skip steel wool, and use red rubbing compound (and they distinctly state to use the red, and not the white). I'm much more inclined to take the advice of someone from this group that says to use the white, not the red. Practical advice outdoes the best 'theory' almost everytime. I don't believe everything I read. And I never use anything I haven't tried before without testing on scrap, or something I don't care about. Wonders in the end if I completely missed your point. At least I know someone has visited the site though ;) paul morin calgary, ab www.cranialstorage.com/wood ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard J. Hucker" |
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130524 | "Richard J. Hucker" <colhuck@n...> | 2004‑03‑11 | Re: Bio-(and Shiney does pay) |
Paul: The information you provide on your web site is sensible, constructive and above all, practical. My comments were tongue and cheek. I did not make my point clear. There are many Galoots that always caution the rest of us to use nothing but shellac. And God forbid we would use any glue other than hide glue. Cleaning a tool? Never. After all, if we remove the sweat and grime that it's original owner put there we would lose the value of the tool. Of course that also assumes that the orginal owner never wiped down his tools or ever made an attempt to clean them. After all, it would spoil the patina. Like he had any concern about patina. Me thinks some Galoots take this a bit too far. We all clean our tools and even polish them. I have some old tools that belonged to my Dad and Granddad. The first thing I did was remove the old sweat. I didn't think they would mind. MJD has done pretty well it seems and we never see dirty, grimy, sweat laden tools for sale on his site. Are we so naive to think that all tools must remain in the "just found" condition? We live in a real 21st Century time and just happen to like old tools. We are not reinactors trying to live in the past. Well, most of us are not. We all have seen the nice clean tools of the same Galoots that preach to the rest of us that we should not ruin our tools by cleaning. If we clean our user tools to whatever extent and it pleases us. . . great. But, if we clean the tools to hornswaggle a potential buyer. That's another matter. I once bought a No. 6 on eBay that was as shiny as can be. When it hit my front door it reeked of WD40 and the wife didn't want it in the house until I gave it a good bath in soap and water. The packing material had to be discarded immediately it smelled so bad. I was hornswaggled by "shiny". The helpful information on your web site is right on. Keep up the good work. I have saved your site in my Favorites and refer to it often. Another helful hint. For cleaning Brass, try Mothers Mag cream that can be found at most Auto Parts stores. Be careful with it. . . it will remove the tarnish. (grin) Regards, Col. Dick Hucker (Huck) Dyer, Indiana ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Morin" |
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130527 | "Alan Perreault" <alan.perreault@v...> | 2004‑03‑11 | Re: Bio-(and Shiney does pay) |
Paul and Fellow Tool Aficionados, I have used both the red and the white rubbing compounds. The red is coarser than the white. I find each can be a valuable tool when used with the appropriate care, in the right circumstance. I always take care to remove any abrasive residue after use. Al Perreault Wachusett Galoot Westminster, Massachusetts > I only recently ran across the suggestion to skip steel wool, and use red rubbing compound (and they distinctly state to use the red, >and not the white). > > I'm much more inclined to take the advice of someone from this group that says to use the white, not the red. Practical advice >outdoes the best 'theory' almost everytime. > > > paul morin > calgary, ab |
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130528 | reeinelson@w... (Bob Nelson) | 2004‑03‑11 | Re: Bio-(and Shiney does pay) |
Hi Paul & All, Re this red rubbing vs. white polishing compound thing. Do we maybe have a contextual mixup? My comments about using the white were made in the context of Paul having suggested rubbing compound might be milder and less abrasive than Brasso. That's definitely not true of any standard red rubbing compound I'm familiar with; it is true of the white polishing compound. I commented accordingly. There are some types of old tool cleanup jobs where the gritty red compound might work quite well and I'm certainly not saying not to use it for such - just don't start out thinking you're using something milder than Brasso. I also wonder if there might be some breed of red compound using jewelers rouge as a base which would indeed be milder than Brasso? Best Wishes, Bob |
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130541 | Paul Pedersen <ppedersen@v...> | 2004‑03‑11 | Re: Bio-(and Shiney does pay) |
Richard writes : > There are many Galoots that always caution the rest of us to > use nothing but shellac. And God forbid we would use any glue > other than hide glue. Cleaning a tool? Never. After all, if we > remove the sweat and grime that it's original owner put there > we would lose the value of the tool. Of course that also assumes > that the orginal owner never wiped down his tools or ever made > an attempt to clean them. After all, it would spoil the patina. > Like he had any concern about patina. Me thinks some Galoots > take this a bit too far. There seems to be a strange undercurrent in oldtools that warps what people say, or how some hear it. I don't believe I've ever heard anybody say "use nothing but shellac", or "don't clean tools", or for that matter "hollow grind or get off the list". One of the list's goals is to focus on traditional ways of doing things. And doing them in a traditional environment. That using a tradition approach might get one closer to that goal is only inherent. Two hundred years ago you could not walk into a shop and see shiny tools producing polyurethaned objects. And they're just as out of place in the environment of this list. That's not to say any of this is good or bad, only that there are different places to go to enjoy different environments. I'm sure there are many groups on the internet in which the mention of wire-wheeling a tool wouldn't raise any eyebrows. Oldtools isn't one of them. There are other groups in which polyurethane is seen as a good thing. Again, oldtools isn't one of them. I think it would be easier if there was some way for someone new to oldtools to 'look around' to get some idea of what kind of place this is. Reading the archives may be a way, but certainly not everyone is prepared to do that. Unfortunately, I'm not sure that what this list was created to address is all that visible anymore, day-to-day, so it's a bit hard for a new person to get an idea of the place. Perhaps one way to understand the reason for oldtools' existence is to study the history of woodworking, from books or by stuying real items like furniture or woodwork. In my mind the feeling one gets when admiring a fine piece of old furniture is the feeling one should get when one spends a few minutes in oldtools. When one looks around the oldtools list, one should see old tools, either being used in their original function to produce fine items of woodwork, or just there to be admired for their own sake. One should also see a whole bunch of very friendly people, living a part of their lives together in this environment. As one of the older members of this list put it, it's all a game. And we're all having fun playing the game together. Paul Pedersen Montreal (Quebec) |
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130549 | "Richard J. Hucker" <colhuck@n...> | 2004‑03‑12 | Re: Bio-(and Shiney does pay) |
Perhaps so BugBear. But that doesn't always hold true. Those that reenact the Civil War in the U.S. show up with some pretty clean and well pressed period clothing. And their weapons are clean. They wouldn't dare fire a black powder weapon that is encrusted with powder residue. I have some black powder handguns, rifles, and a field cannon that are well cared for . . . no patina is wanted. Huck ----- Original Message ----- From: "bugbear" |
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130550 | Michele Minch <ruby@m...> | 2004‑03‑12 | Re: Bio-(and Shiney does pay) |
>> Actually, a reenactor would want their tool to look clean and new. >> A period tool, when used "in period" is a new tool :-) >> Would a cabinetmaker not possibly have his grandfather's tools, and therefore be using a 1780's tool in a an 1820's re-enactment? Ed Minch I have a type 2 #3 (smallish smoother, Jeff) that has a used up sweetheart blade in it. This means that the tools was 50 years old when it got it last blade, and then that was used up! |
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130560 | "Blake Ashley" <Blake.Ashley@t...> | 2004‑03‑12 | Re: Bio-(and Shiney does pay) |
For me, there is pleasure in rescuing the babies that were throw out with the bathwater of mass production. I shave with a straight razor, write with a fountain pen, use a vacuum tube amplifier in my stereo, and smooth the surface of boards with a hand plane, because I refuse to be in such a hurry that I squeeze the aesthetic value out of everything to gain a few minutes of time - time which will then just be filled with more rushing and more mass-produced, soulless junk. In the drive to achieve instant gratification, we have spent a century trying to shorten the learning curve and eliminate the chance of error in every human activity. There is much good in this, but something has been almost lost in the process. The Galoots are the guardians of that which was almost lost: the challenge of trying to master a skill that can never be fully mastered, the creative freedom that comes from intimacy with a medium as complex as wood, the sense of self-sufficiency that comes from knowing that you can make a useful object with tools so simple that you can make the tools too, and the peaceful meditation of trying to bring eye, hand and wood together into harmony through finess and understanding rather than brute force. That is some of what I see on this list. >>> Paul Pedersen |
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130567 | gary may <garyallanmay@y...> | 2004‑03‑12 | Re: Bio-(and Shiney does pay) |
Hi Ed---I have a 3c with the same kind of pedigree---its last blade is a SW, and that one is worn down to the slot---the bottom of this plane is severely worn, rounded really---you can see from the wear on the corrugations the the toe and tail are at least 1/16 more worn away than the throat area...a straightedge reveals the same thing. So this particular plane has been at work for about 150 years, only ten or so of those years in its 'period'... best to all Gs everywhere; gAM seattle Ed wrote: I have a type 2 #3 (smallish smoother, Jeff) that has a used up sweetheart blade in it. This means that the tools was 50 years old when it got it last blade, and then that was used up! __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com |
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130546 | bugbear <bugbear@p...> | 2004‑03‑12 | Re: Bio-(and Shiney does pay) |
Richard J. Hucker wrote: (with reference to NOT cleaning up tools) > We are not reinactors trying to live in the past. Well, most of us are not. Actually, a reenactor would want their tool to look clean and new. A period tool, when used "in period" is a new tool :-) BugBear |
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130577 | Paul Morin <cantos@s...> | 2004‑03‑12 | Re: Bio-(and Shiney does pay) |
It's very very possible.... I don't think i have the original post your comments were made on. One of those oddball see all the replies, but miss the original. I believe the article I red where they recommended the red rubbing compound (turtlewax) was mostly intended for cleaning of wooden (antique) items. I've never used it, haven't had a chance to try it yet. When you mentioned the white compound, I may very well have crossed my wires, thinking you meant the white turtlewax polishing compound. I apologize if I inadvertantly mixed car cleaning items up with jewellers white/rouge polishing compounds. I would imagine the makeup, and use of them are different. I apologize for the confusion I've inadvertantly caused. For now, I think I'll just use Brasso to polish the spittoon. If someone would pass it over here....... paul morin calgary, ab www.cranialstorage.com/wood ----- Original Message ----- From: reeinelson@w... (Bob Nelson) Date: Thursday, March 11, 2004 4:04 pm Subject: Re: RE: [oldtools] Bio-(and Shiney does pay) > Hi Paul & All, > > Re this red rubbing vs. white polishing compound thing. Do we maybe > have a contextual mixup? My comments about using the white were made > in the context of Paul having suggested rubbing compound might be > milder and less abrasive than Brasso. That's definitely not true of > any standard red rubbing compound I'm familiar with; it is true of > the white polishing compound. I commented accordingly. There are > some types of old tool cleanup jobs where the gritty red compound > might work quite well and I'm certainly not saying not to use it for > such - just don't start out thinking you're using something milder > than Brasso. > > I also wonder if there might be some breed of red compound using > jewelers rouge as a base which would indeed be milder than Brasso? > > Best Wishes, Bob > > |
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