OldTools Archive

Recent Bios FAQ

277448 Brian Welch <brian.w.welch@g...> 2023‑06‑06 Rebuilding Note Dame's charpente (roof framing)
NPR ran a story this past Saturday about the French carpentry shop (Les
Ateliers Perrault) rebuilding the charpente of Notre Dame cathedral:

https://www.npr.org/2023/06/03/1179979763/carpenters-are-working-at-a-frenzied-
pace-to-finish-repairing-notre-dame-cathedr

They have been squaring up over 1400 oak trees using only axes, just as the
original was made in the 12th century. Even though the framing won't be
visible in the finished cathedral, they are using traditional methods both
to be faithful to the timber-framed original and to help keep those skills
alive for future generations.

You can see some of the work here:
https://www.ouest-france.fr/culture/patrimoine/notre-dame-de-paris/video-video-
notre-dame-de-paris-cette-entreprise-du-maine-et-loire-reconstruit-la-charpente-
de-la-cathedrale-feb2ca20-7e38-4e2e-9076-93d6411ef240

Brian
277449 scottg <scottg@s...> 2023‑06‑06 Re: Rebuilding Note Dame's charpente (roof framing)
I am glad to hear the work is going.
    I hope someone is filming and talking to the actual crew who is 
doing the work.
   I want to see tools in detail. I want to know who made the tools.
I want the company of working men and women!

   First it was every "daddy's money" computer geek getting all the 
attention in a long TV special.
  Now its talking heads describing how much pressure they are putting 
the  working crew under to satisfy a politicians schedule,................

  and one guy with an ax for 4 seconds.

  It might as well be National Geographic
(and the servants were 6 minutes late I could have died)
    yours scott

-- 
*******************************
    Scott Grandstaff
    Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca  96039
    scottg@s...
    http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/
    http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/hpages/index.html
277450 Bill Kasper <dragon01list@g...> 2023‑06‑06 Re: Rebuilding Note Dame's charpente (roof framing)
you can be sure they are using fine linens to clean up the tools at the end
of the day.
277451 Greg Isola <gregorywisola@g...> 2023‑06‑06 Re: Rebuilding Note Dame's charpente (roof framing)
Well played, sir--referencing a legendary Galoot Adventure nearly as old as
Notre Dame itself.

Take care, all of you,

Greg Isola
Alameda, CA
277452 Dennis Heyza <michigaloot@c...> 2023‑06‑06 Re: Rebuilding Note Dame's charpente (roof framing)
Here's a good story from last year (I think). More detail on the historic
workers.

https://tinyurl.com/2upd5yyu

Dennis

-----Original Message-----
From: oldtools@g...  On Behalf Of Brian Welch
Sent: Tuesday, June 6, 2023 1:03 PM
To: oldtools@g...
Subject: [oldtools] Rebuilding Note Dame's charpente (roof framing)

NPR ran a story this past Saturday about the French carpentry shop (Les Ateliers
Perrault) rebuilding the charpente of Notre Dame cathedral:

https://www.npr.org/2023/06/03/1179979763/carpenters-are-working-at-a-frenzied-
pace-to-finish-repairing-notre-dame-cathedr

They have been squaring up over 1400 oak trees using only axes, just as the
original was made in the 12th century. Even though the framing won't be visible
in the finished cathedral, they are using traditional methods both to be
faithful to the timber-framed original and to help keep those skills alive for
future generations.

You can see some of the work here:
https://www.ouest-france.fr/culture/patrimoine/notre-dame-de-paris/video-video-
notre-dame-de-paris-cette-entreprise-du-maine-et-loire-reconstruit-la-charpente-
de-la-cathedrale-feb2ca20-7e38-4e2e-9076-93d6411ef240

Brian
277454 Esther <galoot@e...> 2023‑06‑06 Re: Rebuilding Note Dame's charpente (roof framing)
An SCA friend send me a link to an NPR snippet, I sent back the 
following:

You might like:http://www.historicalcarpentry.com/l-art-du-trait.html  
(please don't confuse companonnage with Fremasonry, these are real 
artisans doing real apprenticeships and journeys as journeymen, not 
symbolic/speculative).

Also https://www.handshouse.org/notre-dame-truss for a gift truss,
and https://www.handshouse.org/work#/czech-crane/ for something 
different and period...

For the galoots I will add that handshouse has a stack of galoot 
projects to peruse, and Charpentiers Sans Frontières  who did a project 
that turned into a book with the Mortice and Tenon folks is also in the 
mix.  Site at https://www.charpentiers-sans-frontieres.com/   Notre Dame 
is the top (most recent) of the "Chantiers" section, I was in French but 
they have a lot of banners on the bottom to click for English for those 
who don't.

"L'art du trait" is the process of designing and laying out complex 3-d 
stuff in 2-d and appears to be part of traditional training for 
carpentry as well as stonework.  "companonnage" is the traditional 
journeying of journeymen in France, where they travel the country and 
work, learn, and get Really Neat local things pointed out such that a 
real companon can be distinguished by being aware of certain landmark 
works around the country.  I read a book about it a number of years ago, 
can't remember French or English but do remember the authors being very 
clear "please don't confuse this with freemasonry" with is forbidden by 
the Roman Catholic church for various theological reasons.  Somebody 
from Canada teaches it at Marc Adams.


Esther
277453 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2023‑06‑06 Re: Rebuilding Note Dame's charpente (roof framing)
Whazzat?

Don

On 2023-06-06 2:33 p.m., Bill Kasper wrote:
> you can be sure they are using fine linens to clean up the tools at the end
> of the day.
>
> On Tue, Jun 6, 2023 at 11:02\u202fAM scottg  wrote:
>
>> I am glad to hear the work is going.
>>      I hope someone is filming and talking to the actual crew who is
>> doing the work.
>>     I want to see tools in detail. I want to know who made the tools.
>> I want the company of working men and women!
>>
>>     First it was every "daddy's money" computer geek getting all the
>> attention in a long TV special.
>>    Now its talking heads describing how much pressure they are putting
>> the  working crew under to satisfy a politicians schedule,................
>>
>>    and one guy with an ax for 4 seconds.
>>
>>    It might as well be National Geographic
>> (and the servants were 6 minutes late I could have died)
>>      yours scott
>>
>> --
>> *******************************
>>      Scott Grandstaff
>>      Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca  96039
>>      scottg@s...
>>      http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/
>>      http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/hpages/index.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> 
>
>

-- 
\u201cTo argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, 
and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like 
administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist 
by scripture.\u201d \u2015 Thomas Paine, The American Crisis
277455 Kenneth Stagg <kenneth.stagg@g...> 2023‑06‑06 Re: Rebuilding Note Dame's charpente (roof framing)
Esther,

Cool!  I spent 35 years in the truss industry so you know I just had to
check that out. I love the process and that they’re stay as true to it as
they can.

-Ken
277456 Bill Kasper <dragon01list@g...> 2023‑06‑06 Re: Rebuilding Note Dame's charpente (roof framing)
sometime back in the dawn's age of the list, brother alan perreault managed
to, uh, misuse one of his wife's fine tablecloths.  unfortunately i cannot
find the story, but it's canon lore, alongside (among others) the late john
lederer's steam tractor.

bill
felton, ca
277457 Paul Gardner <yoyopg@g...> 2023‑06‑06 Re: Rebuilding Note Dame's charpente (roof framing)
Unless I'm very much mistaken, there are YouTubes of this restoration.  It
might have been a fever dream but I swear that I've watched a couple of
them and have been very impressed.


Paul, in SF
277458 Esther <galoot@e...> 2023‑06‑06 Re: Rebuilding Note Dame's charpente (roof framing)
On 2023-06-06 19:45, Paul Gardner wrote:
> Unless I'm very much mistaken, there are YouTubes of this restoration.  
> It
> might have been a fever dream but I swear that I've watched a couple of
> them and have been very impressed.
> 
Charpentiers sans frontieres has a stack of them.  I haven't managed to 
get the sound going but there is lots of hewing happening.  Also check 
out Guedelon castle which is proud of training a lot of the Notre Dame 
workers...

Esther
277459 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2023‑06‑07 Re: Rebuilding Note Dame's charpente (roof framing)
And I thought I was bad for washing oil stones in the dishwasher.

Don

On 2023-06-06 4:43 p.m., Dragon List wrote:
> sometime back in the dawn's age of the list, brother alan perreault 
> managed to, uh, misuse one of his wife's fine tablecloths.� 
> unfortunately i cannot find the story, but it's canon lore, alongside 
> (among others) the late john lederer's steam tractor.
>
> bill
> felton, ca
>
> On Tue, Jun 6, 2023 at 2:23\u202fPM Don Schwartz  wrote:
>
>     Whazzat?
>
>     Don
>
>     On 2023-06-06 2:33 p.m., Bill Kasper wrote:
>     > you can be sure they are using fine linens to clean up the tools
>     at the end
>     > of the day.
>     >
>     > On Tue, Jun 6, 2023 at 11:02\u202fAM scottg  wrote:
>     >
>     >> I am glad to hear the work is going.
>     >>� � � I hope someone is filming and talking to the actual crew
>     who is
>     >> doing the work.
>     >>� � �I want to see tools in detail. I want to know who made the
>     tools.
>     >> I want the company of working men and women!
>     >>
>     >>� � �First it was every "daddy's money" computer geek getting
>     all the
>     >> attention in a long TV special.
>     >>� � Now its talking heads describing how much pressure they are
>     putting
>     >> the� working crew under to satisfy a politicians
>     schedule,................
>     >>
>     >>� � and one guy with an ax for 4 seconds.
>     >>
>     >>� � It might as well be National Geographic
>     >> (and the servants were 6 minutes late I could have died)
>     >>� � � yours scott
>     >>
>     >> --
>     >> *******************************
>     >>� � � Scott Grandstaff
>     >>� � � Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca� 96039
>     >> scottg@s...
>     >> http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/
>     >> http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/hpages/index.html
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>
>     -- 
>     \u201cTo argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of
>     reason,
>     and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is
>     like
>     administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an
>     atheist
>     by scripture.\u201d \u2015 Thomas Paine, The American Crisis
>
>
>     
>
>

-- 
\u201cTo argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, 
and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like 
administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist 
by scripture.\u201d \u2015 Thomas Paine, The American Crisis
277460 Paul Gardner <yoyopg@g...> 2023‑06‑07 Re: Rebuilding Note Dame's charpente (roof framing)
rotflol
277461 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2023‑06‑07 Re: Rebuilding Note Dame's charpente (roof framing)
To be completely truthful, if memory serves, that was the last stage of 
cleaning, right after boiling in an old roasting pan on the stove top. I 
lined the bottom of the pan with rags to avoid chipping the stones.

Don

On 2023-06-06 6:04 p.m., Paul Gardner wrote:
> rotflol
>
> On Tue, Jun 6, 2023 at 5:01\u202fPM Don Schwartz  wrote:
>
>     And I thought I was bad for washing oil stones in the dishwasher.
>
>     Don
>
>     On 2023-06-06 4:43 p.m., Dragon List wrote:
>     > sometime back in the dawn's age of the list, brother alan perreault
>     > managed to, uh, misuse one of his wife's fine tablecloths.
>     > unfortunately i cannot find the story, but it's canon lore,
>     alongside
>     > (among others) the late john lederer's steam tractor.
>     >
>     > bill
>     > felton, ca
>     >
>     > On Tue, Jun 6, 2023 at 2:23\u202fPM Don Schwartz  wrote:
>     >
>     >� � �Whazzat?
>     >
>     >� � �Don
>     >
>     >� � �On 2023-06-06 2:33 p.m., Bill Kasper wrote:
>     >� � �> you can be sure they are using fine linens to clean up the
>     tools
>     >� � �at the end
>     >� � �> of the day.
>     >� � �>
>     >� � �> On Tue, Jun 6, 2023 at 11:02\u202fAM scottg
>      wrote:
>     >� � �>
>     >� � �>> I am glad to hear the work is going.
>     >� � �>>� � � I hope someone is filming and talking to the actual crew
>     >� � �who is
>     >� � �>> doing the work.
>     >� � �>>� � �I want to see tools in detail. I want to know who
>     made the
>     >� � �tools.
>     >� � �>> I want the company of working men and women!
>     >� � �>>
>     >� � �>>� � �First it was every "daddy's money" computer geek getting
>     >� � �all the
>     >� � �>> attention in a long TV special.
>     >� � �>>� � Now its talking heads describing how much pressure
>     they are
>     >� � �putting
>     >� � �>> the� working crew under to satisfy a politicians
>     >� � �schedule,................
>     >� � �>>
>     >� � �>>� � and one guy with an ax for 4 seconds.
>     >� � �>>
>     >� � �>>� � It might as well be National Geographic
>     >� � �>> (and the servants were 6 minutes late I could have died)
>     >� � �>>� � � yours scott
>     >� � �>>
>     >� � �>> --
>     >� � �>> *******************************
>     >� � �>>� � � Scott Grandstaff
>     >� � �>>� � � Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca� 96039
>     >� � �>> scottg@s...
>     >� � �>> http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/
>     >� � �>> http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/hpages/index.html
>     >� � �>>
>     >� � �>>
>     >� � �>>
>     >� � �>>
>     >� � �>>
>     >� � �>>
>     >� � �>>
>     >� � �>
>     >� � �>
>     >� � �>
>     >� � �>
>     >
>     >� � �--
>     >� � �\u201cTo argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of
>     >� � �reason,
>     >� � �and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in
>     contempt, is
>     >� � �like
>     >� � �administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an
>     >� � �atheist
>     >� � �by scripture.\u201d \u2015 Thomas Paine, The American Crisis
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>
>     -- 
>     \u201cTo argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of
>     reason,
>     and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is
>     like
>     administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an
>     atheist
>     by scripture.\u201d \u2015 Thomas Paine, The American Crisis
>
>
>     
>
>

-- 
\u201cTo argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, 
and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like 
administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist 
by scripture.\u201d \u2015 Thomas Paine, The American Crisis
277462 Paul Gardner <yoyopg@g...> 2023‑06‑07 Re: Rebuilding Note Dame's charpente (roof framing)
To be honest, Don, these are the stories I relish.  So good!
277463 Richard Wilson <yorkshireman@y...> 2023‑06‑07 Re: Rebuilding Note Dame's charpente (roof framing)
> On 7 Jun 2023, at 01:01, Don Schwartz  wrote:
> 
> And I thought I was bad for washing oil stones in the dishwasher.
> 
> Don


What? You too?  

I missed the bit about ‘Only water stones’ when I tried it.  

Richard

But I have John’s families approval to incorporate his story into one of my own.
The pub has changed hands, and some. at least, of the eventual ending of the
stories has come true, as the genial host has left, but the Tale lives on..






> 
> On 2023-06-06 4:43 p.m., Dragon List wrote:
>> sometime back in the dawn's age of the list, brother alan perreault managed
to, uh, misuse one of his wife's fine tablecloths.  unfortunately i cannot find
the story, but it's canon lore, alongside (among others) the late john lederer's
steam tractor.
>> 
>> bill
>> felton, ca
>> 
>> On Tue, Jun 6, 2023 at 2:23 PM Don Schwartz  wrote:
>> 
>>    Whazzat?
>> 
>>    Don
>> 
>>    On 2023-06-06 2:33 p.m., Bill Kasper wrote:
>>    > you can be sure they are using fine linens to clean up the tools
>>    at the end
>>    > of the day.
>>    >
>>    > On Tue, Jun 6, 2023 at 11:02 AM scottg  wrote:
>>    >
>>    >> I am glad to hear the work is going.
>>    >>      I hope someone is filming and talking to the actual crew
>>    who is
>>    >> doing the work.
>>    >>     I want to see tools in detail. I want to know who made the
>>    tools.
>>    >> I want the company of working men and women!
>>    >>
>>    >>     First it was every "daddy's money" computer geek getting
>>    all the
>>    >> attention in a long TV special.
>>    >>    Now its talking heads describing how much pressure they are
>>    putting
>>    >> the  working crew under to satisfy a politicians
>>    schedule,................
>>    >>
>>    >>    and one guy with an ax for 4 seconds.
>>    >>
>>    >>    It might as well be National Geographic
>>    >> (and the servants were 6 minutes late I could have died)
>>    >>      yours scott
>>    >>
>>    >> --
>>    >> *******************************
>>    >>      Scott Grandstaff
>>    >>      Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca  96039
>>    >> scottg@s...
>>    >> http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/
>>    >> http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/hpages/index.html
>>    >>
>>    >>
>>    >>
>>    >>
>>    >>
>>    >>
>>    >>
>>    >
>>    >
>>    >
>>    >
>> 
>>    --     “To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of
>>    reason,
>>    and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is
>>    like
>>    administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an
>>    atheist
>>    by scripture.” ― Thomas Paine, The American Crisis
>> 
>> 
>>    
>> 
> 
> -- 
> “To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and
whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering
medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.” ―
Thomas Paine, The American Crisis
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 



-- 
Yorkshireman Galoot
in the most northerly county, farther north even than Yorkshire
IT #300
277464 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2023‑06‑07 Re: Rebuilding Note Dame's charpente (roof framing)
It worked without mishap for me, as I'd gone through solvents and 
boiling first. And we rarely used that old dishwasher in any case.

On a related note, after some 9 years or so of use, I've recently had to 
flatten my coarse Norton stone ( one side only ) using 36 grit SiC 
flooring sander paper spray-glued to an old bathroom cabinet mirror 
door. I'm leaving the other side hollow for cambered irons.

Don

On 2023-06-06 7:22 p.m., yorkshireman@y... wrote:
>
>> On 7 Jun 2023, at 01:01, Don Schwartz  wrote:
>>
>> And I thought I was bad for washing oil stones in the dishwasher.
>>
>> Don
>
> What? You too?
>
> I missed the bit about \u2018Only water stones\u2019 when I tried it.
>
> Richard
>
> But I have John\u2019s families approval to incorporate his story into one of
my own.  The pub has changed hands, and some. at least, of the eventual ending
of the stories has come true, as the genial host has left, but the Tale lives
on..
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> On 2023-06-06 4:43 p.m., Dragon List wrote:
>>> sometime back in the dawn's age of the list, brother alan perreault managed
to, uh, misuse one of his wife's fine tablecloths.  unfortunately i cannot find
the story, but it's canon lore, alongside (among others) the late john lederer's
steam tractor.
>>>
>>> bill
>>> felton, ca
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 6, 2023 at 2:23\u202fPM Don Schwartz  wrote:
>>>
>>>     Whazzat?
>>>
>>>     Don
>>>
>>>     On 2023-06-06 2:33 p.m., Bill Kasper wrote:
>>>     > you can be sure they are using fine linens to clean up the tools
>>>     at the end
>>>     > of the day.
>>>     >
>>>     > On Tue, Jun 6, 2023 at 11:02\u202fAM scottg  wrote:
>>>     >
>>>     >> I am glad to hear the work is going.
>>>     >>      I hope someone is filming and talking to the actual crew
>>>     who is
>>>     >> doing the work.
>>>     >>     I want to see tools in detail. I want to know who made the
>>>     tools.
>>>     >> I want the company of working men and women!
>>>     >>
>>>     >>     First it was every "daddy's money" computer geek getting
>>>     all the
>>>     >> attention in a long TV special.
>>>     >>    Now its talking heads describing how much pressure they are
>>>     putting
>>>     >> the  working crew under to satisfy a politicians
>>>     schedule,................
>>>     >>
>>>     >>    and one guy with an ax for 4 seconds.
>>>     >>
>>>     >>    It might as well be National Geographic
>>>     >> (and the servants were 6 minutes late I could have died)
>>>     >>      yours scott
>>>     >>
>>>     >> --
>>>     >> *******************************
>>>     >>      Scott Grandstaff
>>>     >>      Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca  96039
>>>     >> scottg@s...
>>>     >> http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/
>>>     >> http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/hpages/index.html
>>>     >>
>>>     >>
>>>     >>
>>>     >>
>>>     >>
>>>     >>
>>>     >>
>>>     >
>>>     >
>>>     >
>>>     >
>>>
>>>     --     \u201cTo argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority
of
>>>     reason,
>>>     and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is
>>>     like
>>>     administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an
>>>     atheist
>>>     by scripture.\u201d \u2015 Thomas Paine, The American Crisis
>>>
>>>
>>>     
>>>
>> -- 
>> \u201cTo argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason,
and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like
administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by
scripture.\u201d \u2015 Thomas Paine, The American Crisis
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>

-- 
\u201cTo argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, 
and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like 
administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist 
by scripture.\u201d \u2015 Thomas Paine, The American Crisis

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