OldTools Archive

Recent Bios FAQ

276615 Darrell <larchmont479@g...> 2022‑11‑23 unforeseen challenges
Galoots,

As the subject line indicates, I am facing some challenges that
I did not anticipate in this project. Currently I am building a set
of knockdown shelves for SCA camping. These are for a friend,
and are built to her specifications. The most critical of which is
that the whole ensemble has to break down and fit into a very
small volume in her vehicle. I'm way out in front of the curve here
folks, and will complete the project before she has to purchase
a new car. How's that for awesome?

So, on to the challenges. The biggest one I am fighting with
right now is the sheer size of the panels I am dealing with.
They are 15 X 42 inches. That's not so bad when you're
planing or scraping them. You put some stops on the bench,
maybe a holdfast or two, and everything works fine. But I am
past that part of the project, and I'm cutting tenons.

Big tenons on the ends of big boards. I am having to orient
the stock several ways, for various operations. The bench
is pretty large (3 feet by 7 feet) so I *should* be able to do
this, but I am finding it difficult. There are too many tools
on the bench to allow for all the requisite position changes
of the stock. I keep having to move tools back and forth,
or pick them up off the floor from whence they have fallen.

I greatly fear that I will have to reorganise or reduce my tool
repository to provide some off-bench space near at hand.

Can I hear a chorus of Moans Of Despair, please?

Darrell
-- 
Oakville ON
Wood Hoarder, Blade Sharpener, and Occasional Tool User
276616 Kirk Eppler 2022‑11‑23 Re: unforeseen challenges
Heck, stand them up in front of the bench, and holdfast them to the bench,
Says he confidently, who has never done it this way before.  Then you only
have to move the stuff hanging over the front edge of the bench.


Kirk in Half Moon Bay, dispensing useless information across multiple
platforms today it seems,  Must be time for a holiday break, happy
thanksgiving to our US correspondents.

On Wed, Nov 23, 2022 at 1:30 PM Darrell  wrote:

>
>
> So, on to the challenges. The biggest one I am fighting with
> right now is the sheer size of the panels I am dealing with.
> They are 15 X 42 inches. That's not so bad when you're
> planing or scraping them. You put some stops on the bench,
> maybe a holdfast or two, and everything works fine. But I am
> past that part of the project, and I'm cutting tenons.
>
> Big tenons on the ends of big boards. I am having to orient
> the stock several ways, for various operations. The bench
> is pretty large (3 feet by 7 feet) so I *should* be able to do
> this, but I am finding it difficult. There are too many tools
> on the bench to allow for all the requisite position changes
> of the stock. I keep having to move tools back and forth,
> or pick them up off the floor from whence they have fallen.
>
>
>


-- 
Kirk Eppler in Half Moon Bay, CA 
276617 M H <shadowd@g...> 2022‑11‑23 Re: unforeseen challenges
Have you considered an apron to hold most of the hand tools?  Perhaps a
pony/backup table behind you to hold the other tools?

I have a constrained space to do my work in, so I usually have a small
outdoor furniture side table beside me while using my ersatz workbench.
Perhaps you’ve got some seasonal/occasional furniture that can be press
ganged into use ?

Marc, in unseasonably warm Toronto, ON

On Wed, Nov 23, 2022 at 5:35 PM Kirk Eppler via groups.io  wrote:
276619 Michael Blair <branson2@s...> 2022‑11‑24 Re: unforeseen challenges
Moans of despair!  Loud.  "There are too many tools
on the bench to allow for all the requisite position changes
of the stock." 

I feel your pain!  My 4 X 8 foot bench has the same disease.  Currently
working on the medicine cabinet from that very dark, very hot place.  My
neighbor wanted to make a cabinet around a glass front cabinet door, one
of two.  First one was rabidly out of square, so I took the other.  But
it was not square either, though not as bad.  Built a jig on the bench
top, built a face frame.  Dowelling jig failure.  Pulled it apart and
rebuilt.  That's when I discovered my framing square wasn't square. 
Pulled that one apart too.  Ah Hah!  Pulled out the #100 framing vise,
and guess what?  It isn't square either.  (How then, does it build
problem free picture frames?!)   Enter the horizontal boring machine. 
Face frame no assembled! 

Mike in Woodland
276620 galoot@l... 2022‑11‑24 Re: unforeseen challenges
Are you talking tenons on the ends of the 42" boards?  Put them on a  
sitting height bench, ask Kathy or one of the kids to be a gravity  
clamp and pretend you are ripping a short distance?  Or wait a couple  
weeks to be invaded by invited kibitzers who can demonstrate how they  
would do it?  You know, the Tom Sawyer solution...  With a not huge  
vehicle I will be interested in the design.

Esther who expects to be one of the kibitzers at the barbeque in 2+ weeks.

Quoting Darrell :
276621 Richard Wilson <yorkshireman@y...> 2022‑11‑24 Re: unforeseen challenges
Darrell has a problem….

I read this as needing to cut tenons onto 42” components.  I may be missing
something here, which is my normal state after all, but why not cut them
horizontally?

Some long time ago I made up an extended base for a 71, with an end piece that
provides a sort of depth stop

courier font  ascii art follows.  Router body, a basem attached with the
conveniently built in screwholes, and a stop which moves up and down, secured
with a couple of screws, tightened from the end.


     RRRRR
     RRRRR     S
  bbbbbbbbbbbbbS- 
www    c       S
wwwwwwwwwwww   S
www            S



SO what does that fo for us.  Well, you can cut the tenon face and remove the
bulk material with a mallet and chisel, then set the router to the tenon face,
with its free end supported on the base.  You then use it to bring the tenon
face to a finished state.  Rotate the workpiece 90 degrees and repeat as needed.

As the french might say - Voila!

but seriously, the simplicity of the No71 (router, Jeff) hides its adaptability.
With the above modification, you are suddenly enabled to work on the ends of
workpieces where you would otherwise be denied access.  Those screw holes built
in for the fence can so easily be adapted for a plate which extends the base, or
for deeper fences to enable you to interact with mouldings, or whatever your
fancy suggests.
And - in previous instalments here, don’t forget that making your own fancy or
miniature blades is ridiculously easy with a grinding wheel and an allen key.


Richard Wilson
reaching back to the last century for ascii art 





> On 23 Nov 2022, at 21:30, Darrell  wrote:
> 
(snip)

> So, on to the challenges. The biggest one I am fighting with
> right now is the sheer size of the panels I am dealing with.
> They are 15 X 42 inches. That's not so bad when you're
> planing or scraping them. You put some stops on the bench,
> maybe a holdfast or two, and everything works fine. But I am
> past that part of the project, and I'm cutting tenons.
> 
> Big tenons on the ends of big boards. I am having to orient
> the stock several ways, for various operations. The bench
> is pretty large (3 feet by 7 feet) so I *should* be able to do
> this, but I am finding it difficult. There are too many tools
> on the bench to allow for all the requisite position changes



-- 
Yorkshireman Galoot
in the most northerly county, farther north even than Yorkshire
IT #300
276623 Phil E. <pedgerton66@g...> 2022‑11‑24 Re: unforeseen challenges
Hi Galoots,

Darrel,

A small rolling cart works well for extra tools needed. You can drag it
around to wherever. I lucked into an old "overbed table" from a hospital.
Rolls around easily with a bonus of height adjustability. I often use it to
support the ends of long boards which hang off the bench.

Best,

Phil E.
276624 Darrell <larchmont479@g...> 2022‑11‑25 Re: unforeseen challenges
On Wed, 23 Nov 2022 at 23:09,  wrote:
>
> Are you talking tenons on the ends of the 42" boards?  Put them on a
> sitting height bench, ask Kathy or one of the kids to be a gravity
> clamp and pretend you are ripping a short distance?  Or wait a couple
> weeks to be invaded by invited kibitzers who can demonstrate how they
> would do it?  You know, the Tom Sawyer solution...  With a not huge
> vehicle I will be interested in the design.
>
> Esther who expects to be one of the kibitzers at the barbeque in 2+ weeks.
>

Good idea, but I got a handle on it already.

I spent some time looking at the cuts I needed to make and the
locations available on the bench. The other end (lesser-used end)
of the bench was a better place to work, as it turns out. I could more
easily make the rips and crosscuts I needed from that side.

The other thing that made a difference was to reduce the number
of tools I had in play. One square instead of three. One chisel instead
of two. Skip the crosscut backsaw, as the relatively fine-toothed rip
saw does an acceptable job on cross cuts as well.

With a much less cluttered bench and a better work area the job
was completed with relative ease. I was working hard, not smart,
I guess?

Darrell
-- 
Oakville ON
Wood Hoarder, Blade Sharpener, and Occasional Tool User
276625 Bill Ghio 2022‑11‑25 Re: unforeseen challenges
> On Nov 24, 2022, at 9:34 PM, Darrell  wrote:
> 
> 
> With a much less cluttered bench and a better work area the job
> was completed with relative ease. I was working hard, not smart,
> I guess?
> 

Coming late to the conversation but I decided to go ahead and show how my tools
are arranged near the bench:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/77280442@N.../52522657896/in/dateposted/

On the right in the picture is the narrow table that holds all the squares,
rules and knives plus a set of short chisels, mallet and misc. useful items.
this table is about three feet behind me when working so an easy reach. On a
lower ever shelf is a tool box with lesser used tools.

On the wall is the hanging tool cabinet full of bench tools: Planes, shaves,
marking gauges and paring chisels. This is approx. four feet away. Just out of
sight to the left of the hanging tool cabinet is a rack of scrapers. Further to
the left on the other side of the window, but off screen, is the saw rack. Below
that is a large toolbox for the least used tools.

If you are sharp eyed you will even note there is a shaving horse there which
allows me to reach shaves & drawknives on the bench when at work.

The bench is six feet long and has six feet of open space where I was standing
to take the picture.

It is a good sized space, but efficiently cluttered.

Bill
276626 Dennis Heyza <michigaloot@c...> 2022‑11‑25 Re: unforeseen challenges
Jumping in on the shop clutter conversation -

Here's a link to my hand-tool-only shop page:

https://www.dheyza.net/my-workshop

I learned long ago that working out of a tool chest was not for me. I like
everything in view and easy to grab without moving anything else. For
reference, my plane cabinet is about six steps from the bench, everything
else no more than a dozen feet. I typically take out the tools I need for a
set of tasks and put them away when done (and sweep). Once or twice over the
last couple years I found it necessary to set up a small folding card table
nearby if there were more required tools than open bench space, but that is
extremely rare.

Dennis Heyza - perhaps a bit anal in New Baltimore, Michigan
  

-----Original Message-----
From: oldtools@g...  On Behalf Of Bill Ghio via
groups.io
Sent: Friday, November 25, 2022 11:14 AM
To: Darrell 
Cc: porch 
Subject: Re: [oldtools] unforeseen challenges



> On Nov 24, 2022, at 9:34 PM, Darrell  wrote:
> 
> 
> With a much less cluttered bench and a better work area the job was 
> completed with relative ease. I was working hard, not smart, I guess?
> 

Coming late to the conversation but I decided to go ahead and show how my
tools are arranged near the bench:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/77280442@N.../52522657896/in/dateposted/

On the right in the picture is the narrow table that holds all the squares,
rules and knives plus a set of short chisels, mallet and misc. useful items.
this table is about three feet behind me when working so an easy reach. On a
lower ever shelf is a tool box with lesser used tools.

On the wall is the hanging tool cabinet full of bench tools: Planes, shaves,
marking gauges and paring chisels. This is approx. four feet away. Just out
of sight to the left of the hanging tool cabinet is a rack of scrapers.
Further to the left on the other side of the window, but off screen, is the
saw rack. Below that is a large toolbox for the least used tools.

If you are sharp eyed you will even note there is a shaving horse there
which allows me to reach shaves & drawknives on the bench when at work.

The bench is six feet long and has six feet of open space where I was
standing to take the picture.

It is a good sized space, but efficiently cluttered.

Bill
276627 cowtown_eric <ecoyle@t...> 2022‑11‑26 Re: unforeseen challenges
I have used the bedside table things to great advantage over the years.
Indeed exactly for what Darrly was describing-keeping the tools out of the
way. I added a little shelf on top of it with a sloping top to keep stuff
like everyday chisels at hand without cluttering up the assembly table
Used to be able to get em from Gov't surplus for 5 bucks.

Even modified one to support cabinet uppers when installing. Worked like a
charm -still got it and use it.

They are shaky at best, so not conducive to stable work like cutting tenons
etc.

Another I used to hold my little used mortice machine

an immensely practical solution

Eric

Recent Bios FAQ