OldTools Archive
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276336 | the_tinker <tinker@z...> | 2022‑09‑18 | Question on working green wood |
For the collective wisdom of the list (Ok, mostly Scott). Is there a fundamental difference between working a true sapling versus a fresh new growth branch from an old tree? I need to split a 1-1/4" diameter green sapling down about 18" and then loop the split end back on itself in a tight loop. Think I will saw into the stick half way and split the waste away. May still need to boil it to get as tight a loop as I want, Thinking hickory but will gladly entertain suggestions. Thanks, -JP |
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276337 | Richard Wilson <yorkshireman@y...> | 2022‑09‑18 | Re: Question on working green wood |
JP is doing some bodging… > I need to split a 1-1/4" diameter green sapling down about 18" and then loop the split end back on itself in a tight loop. > > Think I will saw into the stick half way and split the waste away. May still need to boil it to get as tight a loop as I want, > > Thinking hickory but will gladly entertain suggestions. I’m not quite understanding whether you want to bend a half round stick into a circle, or split a full round and bend only the 18 inches of a half round into a circle. Nor whether this is wanted with the bark side on the inside or outside of the bend. But as to the question - No, not much difference between a sapling or a sapling size branch, such as would come out of a coppice. I can’t speak to hickory (It doesn’t grow on trees around here) but this seems very do-able in something like hazel, or with equipment and a shop and steaming, in beech. Lots of beechwood bent chairs around that are about these kind of dimensions. A couple of days ago I was looking at some very chunky oak that must have been steam bent back in the 19th century. Pugin designed woodwork, back in the day when timber DID grow on trees, and the best there was is what went into his furniture. Good wishes to all Richard Wilson Yorkshireman galoot, back from a visit to God’s country. > On 18 Sep 2022, at 16:07, the_tinker |
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276338 | Charlie Driggs | 2022‑09‑18 | Re: Question on working green wood |
> On Sep 18, 2022, at 11:07 AM, the_tinker |
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276339 | gtgrouch@r... | 2022‑09‑18 | Re: Question on working green wood |
I don't know if you need both bits when you saw it. If not, I would consider working it down with a drawknife. It will be quick on green wood, and it will leave a smooth surface, which is less likely to split when you bend it. YMMV, Gary Katsanis Albion New York, USA -----------------------------------------From: "Richard Wilson" To: "the_tinker" Cc: "porch" Sent: Sunday September 18 2022 12:37:56PM Subject: Re: [oldtools] Question on working green wood JP is doing some bodging… > I need to split a 1-1/4" diameter green sapling down about 18" and then loop the split end back on itself in a tight loop. > > Think I will saw into the stick half way and split the waste away. May still need to boil it to get as tight a loop as I want, > > Thinking hickory but will gladly entertain suggestions. I’m not quite understanding whether you want to bend a half round stick into a circle, or split a full round and bend only the 18 inches of a half round into a circle. Nor whether this is wanted with the bark side on the inside or outside of the bend. But as to the question - No, not much difference between a sapling or a sapling size branch, such as would come out of a coppice. I can’t speak to hickory (It doesn’t grow on trees around here) but this seems very do-able in something like hazel, or with equipment and a shop and steaming, in beech. Lots of beechwood bent chairs around that are about these kind of dimensions. A couple of days ago I was looking at some very chunky oak that must have been steam bent back in the 19th century. Pugin designed woodwork, back in the day when timber DID grow on trees, and the best there was is what went into his furniture. Good wishes to all Richard Wilson Yorkshireman galoot, back from a visit to God’s country. > On 18 Sep 2022, at 16:07, the_tinker wrote: > > For the collective wisdom of the list (Ok, mostly Scott). > > Is there a fundamental difference between working a true sapling versus a fresh new growth branch from an old tree? > > I need to split a 1-1/4" diameter green sapling down about 18" and then loop the split end back on itself in a tight loop. > > Think I will saw into the stick half way and split the waste away. May still need to boil it to get as tight a loop as I want, > > Thinking hickory but will gladly entertain suggestions. > > Thanks, > > -JP > > > > > > -- Yorkshireman Galoot in the most northerly county, farther north even than Yorkshire IT #300 Links: ------ [1] https://groups.io/g/oldtools/unsub |
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276340 | scottg <scottg@s...> | 2022‑09‑18 | Re: Question on working green wood |
I think you forgot to mention why?? How tight a bend is tight? A rug beater? Tennis racket? What? Given both choices I would go with a vertical sapling. Limb wood tends to warp over time. All wood is a crap shoot, but take any odds you can get. hahahaha You will find it difficult to sever any dowel shaped piece of wood into 2 perfectly equal 1/2's, if that is what you meant. Saws want to wander and so do splits. Better cut several blanks while you are out. Hickory does indeed bend. Depending on how tight a loop you are trying to make. ................... Steaming the bejesus out of it and some kind of "cheater" up to several feet long to help bend it, a brace or cover or whatever you call it, to support the outside of the bend to reduce splitting as its being bent, then placing it into a solid pre-prepared jig to hold it for at least a week. Even then, whatever bend you make will spring back once released, so you have to bend tighter than you want the finished project to be or have a prepared joint of some kind to snap it into. yours, just another scott -- ******************************* Scott Grandstaff Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca 96039 scottg@s... http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/hpages/index.html |
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276341 | the_tinker <tinker@z...> | 2022‑09‑18 | Re: Question on working green wood |
Scott, I did. Didn't want to bore. Long story longer, just got back from a three week trip through Nebraska, Wyoming and Montana (retirement is wonderful) basically following the track of Red Cloud's War. Hit all the battle sites and old forts or locations such as there is. Hay field fight, Crazy women creek, Wagon box fight, Battle of Hundred-in-hands (Fetterman massacre - since when does the loser get to name the battle?). Any way being a long time student of the 100 years war as fought here in the colonies (French and Indian War to my friends across the pond). I have made bows, arrows, knives and tomahawks in Indian style. This trip inspired me to make a plains Indian war club. I brought a bucket full of suitable stones from the banks of the Yellowstone river. So yes, after grooving the stone head I want to wrap the split section bark out around the stone and bind with raw hide. I figure I could get a really tight wrap going flat-to-flat. I will use only what was available to a plains Indian. I'm going to use a chunk of iron similar to a wagon wheel tire to try and chip the groove. Have some good picture to work with from the museum at Cody. Interesting fact, the war clubs got about 20 inches longer with the introduction of the horse. Later, -John |
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276342 | scottg <scottg@s...> | 2022‑09‑18 | Re: Question on working green wood |
> Hey John > OH crap boredom? If I worried about boring I would never post anything. > Unless you were intentionally posting a teaser, in which case, way to > go!! > Every guy on the porch is scratching their head wondering what in > hell you are up to. hahaahahahahah > > I haven't seen wood bent around a stone for a club. > I have seen layers of heavy rawhide (shrinks violently as it dries.) > I have seen "grown" war clubs, where a vertical slot is cut into a > growing stick and a stone pushed through. > Time and growth sets it, like, well like a rock. lol > > You would have to violently bend a stick and then force the stone > back in after it cures, to get much tension at all, I am afraid. > yours scott > > -- ******************************* Scott Grandstaff Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca 96039 scottg@s... http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/ http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/hpages/index.html |
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276343 | Joe Jerkins <jerkinsjoe@g...> | 2022‑09‑18 | Re: Question on working green wood |
John, I have nothing of value to add about green woodworking, but your trip really caught my eye. I just finished reading Crazy House;The Strange man of the Oglalas. Please post pictures (in-progress and finished). Ping me off line if interested and I'll send you the book. It's well written, engaging and sad. Joe in rainy(!) San Francisco |
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276344 | the_tinker <tinker@z...> | 2022‑09‑18 | Re: Question on working green wood |
Scott, Rawhide is the standard and I will go that route. Guess I was overthinking this. Love the second option but since I'm 66 I don't think I have the time ;-). Although I did plant a couple of walnut trees today to replace a blown over poplar in the back of the property. I did think of the old Greek proverb - "A society is great when old men plant trees under whose shade they will never relax". Guess there is some hope for us yet. -JP |
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276345 | Tony Seo | 2022‑09‑18 | Re: Question on working green wood |
On 9/18/2022 11:07 AM, the_tinker wrote: > For the collective wisdom of the list (Ok, mostly Scott). > > Is there a fundamental difference between working a true sapling > versus a fresh new growth branch from an old tree? > > I need to split a 1-1/4" diameter green sapling down about 18" and > then loop the split end back on itself in a tight loop. > > Think I will saw into the stick half way and split the waste away. May > still need to boil it to get as tight a loop as I want, I have made a few hoops for displaying beaver pelts, but I never split one down. We have a ton (literally) of new growth maple saplings around, so I would just pick one that was about the diameter that I wanted, and cut it down. Tie it in a hoop and let it dry. I thought that I had a picture of that, but I can't find one right off. I have also used those maple saplings for making primitive tent poles and they are still going strong 15 plus years later. Funny story about the beaver pelt. I used to do a one day leatherworking demo at the Lord Stirling 18th Century Festival in Basking Ridge NJ. And this was a family type event with lots of "yuppie" families, like the one time when a young boy asked where the deer hides that I had on display came from and his mother replied "They come from animals that were cruelly killed for their skins" and her husband chimed in "Yea, like those $200 dress shoes you wear!". I just smiled as they walked off. Well one time, one of the yuppie mom types sees the beaver pelt I had hanging up, asked what it was, and after I told her, she felt it and asked "Are all beavers this soft?" To which I answered with a smile, "So are, some aren't." She replied "Oh" and a couple of older gals who were standing there as well started laughing hard (they got the joke), but the yuppie mom still had no clue. Oh yes. Tony (running on fumes after back to back 4:00 AM flea market wake up calls...) -- Facebook https://www.facebook.com/tonyseomusic Old River Hard Goods http://oldetoolshop.com/ |
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276352 | Bob Page | 2022‑09‑20 | Re: Obsolete thread sizes |
I highly recommend buying taps and dies from Greg Ricketts at 'A Plane Life'. Not only is he well versed on Stanley tools (and very nice guy), his tools are all Made in the US and are top quality. The last time I bought a #12-20 tap from Victor Machinery, it was sourced from an overseas company. I'm afraid to use it. Just my two cents.... Bob Page In da U.P. of Michigan On Tuesday, September 20, 2022 at 11:44:19 AM EDT, Kevin Foley |
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276353 | Kevin Foley <kevin.foley.135@g...> | 2022‑09‑20 | Re: Obsolete thread sizes |
Off topic but I can recommend his japanning too. He did a lot of research and testing to perfect his formula. It’s the real deal and it’s easy to work with. Kevin |
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276354 | Mark van Roojen <mvr1@e...> | 2022‑09‑21 | Re: Obsolete thread sizes |
Well you all got me to spend some money on taps, gilsonite and shooting board parts at aPlaneLife this morning. Would have gotten a few dies as well, but I was running out of money and I can usually find those parts. Thanks to the bunch of you! Mark van Roojen POB 83836 Lincoln, NE 68501-3836 (402) 438-3724 (h) Webpage: www.mvr1.com |
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