OldTools Archive

Recent Bios FAQ

276269 James DuPrie <jbn.duprie@g...> 2022‑09‑06 what wood for a screen door (and other building thoughts).....
I've decided that this winter I'll build a  screen door for my back door.
It opens onto a covered porch, so, other than windblown rain and snow, its
pretty sheltered. Never gets direct sun.

I'm wondering what wood folks would recommend? The porch is mahogany, so
that's a good starting place...

I'm planning on fairly traditional constructions - M+T, screens secured in
grooves (probably as removable panels for easy maintenance), no storm
panels. Haven't decided on if it needs a spring or just a latch.......

Any thoughts on things to watch out for, or be concerned about?

thanks
-James in Maine
276270 Andrew Heybey <ath@h...> 2022‑09‑06 Re: what wood for a screen door (and other building thoughts).....
On Sep 6, 2022, at 9:57 AM, James DuPrie  wrote:
> 
> I've decided that this winter I'll build a  screen door for my back door.
> It opens onto a covered porch, so, other than windblown rain and snow, its
> pretty sheltered. Never gets direct sun.

I don’t have anything useful to contribute, but I will follow along with
interest because I am contemplating the same thing.  We replaced our grungy ugly
front door and storm door with a new door, and  decided that we didn’t need a
storm door since our door is also under a roof, and the new door is well
insulated and sealed.

But we have since decided that it would be nice to have a screen door to let in
light and air on nice days.  I have lots of ash available from trees we have
cut, so if it is not an unreasonable idea I would go with that.

andrew
276271 Kevin Foley <kevin.foley.135@g...> 2022‑09‑06 Re: what wood for a screen door (and other building thoughts).....
James,

I would consider, in order of descending cost, teak, cypress, then real, dense,
heavy, resinous, SYP — not the deck junk.

Cheers,
Kevin
276272 James DuPrie <jbn.duprie@g...> 2022‑09‑06 Re: what wood for a screen door (and other building thoughts).....
OK, you've raised something else I've been contemplating: weight.....
I don;t recall what the screen doors of my youth were made of (they were
always painted anyway), but they weren't heavy. They were typical mass
produced screen doors that were found all over the country in houses made
(or updated) from the 20s through the early 70s - when aluminum replaced
wood. I always assumed they were made of the generic 'white wood' (probably
one of the evergreen softwoods) because of the weight and paint....

the reason I'm wondering about weight is that, with a simple spring (either
hinge or free hanging), 2 issues come up: The first is simply how much
spring is needed to close the door, the second is momentum - what happens
when the door smacks into the jamb (especially if something like a finger
is on the jamb)...

I was planning to avoid the pneumatic door closers that are standard now,
so soft close isn't really an option....
these are the hinges I'm thinking of using:
https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/hardware/architectural-hardware/interior-
door/hinges/46500-cast-hold-open-hinge?item=01K2980

-James

On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 10:19 AM Kevin Foley 
wrote:
276273 Richard Wilson <yorkshireman@y...> 2022‑09‑06 Re: what wood for a screen door (and other building thoughts).....
And fro mover here, I’d add in larch - light, weatherproof, not a bad colour.
Maybe a bit soft, so would take some dents if abused.


Richard Wilson
Yorkshireman Galoot

no longer in a drought.



> On 6 Sep 2022, at 15:19, Kevin Foley  wrote:
> 
> James,
> 
> I would consider, in order of descending cost, teak, cypress, then real,
dense, heavy, resinous, SYP — not the deck junk.
> 
> Cheers,
> Kevin
> 
>> On Sep 6, 2022, at 9:57 AM, James DuPrie  wrote:
>> 
>> I've decided that this winter I'll build a  screen door for my back door.
>> It opens onto a covered porch, so, other than windblown rain and snow, its
>> pretty sheltered. Never gets direct sun.
>> 
>> I'm wondering what wood folks would recommend? The porch is mahogany, so
>> that's a good starting place...
>> 
>> I'm planning on fairly traditional constructions - M+T, screens secured in
>> grooves (probably as removable panels for easy maintenance), no storm
>> panels. Haven't decided on if it needs a spring or just a latch.......
>> 
>> Any thoughts on things to watch out for, or be concerned about?
>> 
>> thanks
>> -James in Maine
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 



-- 
Yorkshireman Galoot
in the most northerly county, farther north even than Yorkshire
IT #300
276274 Brian Welch <brian.w.welch@g...> 2022‑09‑06 Re: what wood for a screen door (and other building thoughts).....
On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 12:14 PM James DuPrie  wrote:

> OK, you've raised something else I've been contemplating: weight.....
> I don;t recall what the screen doors of my youth were made of (they were
> always painted anyway), but they weren't heavy. They were typical mass
> produced screen doors that were found all over the country in houses made
> (or updated) from the 20s through the early 70s - when aluminum replaced
> wood. I always assumed they were made of the generic 'white wood' (probably
> one of the evergreen softwoods) because of the weight and paint....
>
> the reason I'm wondering about weight is that, with a simple spring (either
> hinge or free hanging), 2 issues come up: The first is simply how much
> spring is needed to close the door, the second is momentum - what happens
> when the door smacks into the jamb (especially if something like a finger
> is on the jamb)...
>
> I was planning to avoid the pneumatic door closers that are standard now,
> so soft close isn't really an option....
> these are the hinges I'm thinking of using:
>
> https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/hardware/architectural-hardware/interior-
door/hinges/46500-cast-hold-open-hinge?item=01K2980
>
> -James
>

Hi James,

I spent the summer turning my deck into a screened-in porch (yes I started
and finished it within a month and my wife LOVES it!) and I installed a
white-wood screen door from Lowe's with basic spring hinges like those but
not as nice. It slams shut, but in a satisfying way. My friend came over
and he said the sound of the screen door took him back to his grandparents'
house. I would think they could handle a heavier door but I'm not sure I'd
want to get whacked by a heavier door.

I had to install a gutter because the rain kept dripping down onto the
landing and splashing up onto the door causing it to expand and stick.
OldTools content: I had to plane the door multiple times to get it to fit
properly. The gutter has solved that problem, thankfully.

Brian in rainy central Massachusetts
276275 scottg <scottg@s...> 2022‑09‑06 Re: what wood for a screen door (and other building thoughts).....
I assume its regional choices of lumber

  Sugar pine is what I have made many screen doors from here. Light, 
strong, holds up to weather.
  People were known to split out shake roofs from sugar pine once, and 
it lasts for generations.

   Slightly weird. Ponderosa pine (grows right next to sugar)
wouldn't last 2 years.

  1 1/8" is standard classy screen door from my shop.
Commercial doors were often 7/8 or 1"

An old school door spring can be set to about any tension you want.
  I never needed a door spring that could cut off a finger.
  yours scott



-- 
*******************************
    Scott Grandstaff
    Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca  96039
    scottg@s...
    http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/
    http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/hpages/index.html
276276 Phil Schempf <philschempf@g...> 2022‑09‑06 Re: what wood for a screen door (and other building thoughts).....
Choosing quarter sawn wood if you can will save you some trouble down the
road.

Phil
276277 Chris Wolf <hframe79001@g...> 2022‑09‑06 Re: what wood for a screen door (and other building thoughts).....
I built my porch screen door out of red cedar in 2011 and it has worked
out great.This replaced a big-box screen door installed in 1993 by the
contractor who built the porch. The original was some sort of non-durable
wood.
https://groups.io/g/oldtools/photo/263870/3482845
The door is very lightweight. The simple design in the lower half was
chosen to be decorative, but also to incorporate the diagonals for rigidity
against racking. As far as I can tell, the door hasn't sagged even a
fraction of an inch in eleven years. It is fully exposed to weather, so it
doesn't look as new as the photo any more, but has held up quite well
nevertheless.

It has removable panels (more like frames actually) top and bottom, each of
a different design, but both held in place with a tongue and groove at the
bottom and concealed rare earth magnets along their upper frame. The lower
panel sandwiches a loose acrylic panel against the door frame, with no
option for a screen. The upper panel has a stapled on screen, always in
place, plus a slot which allows an acrylic to be slipped in behind the
screen for the winter.

I installed a pneumatic closer. The handle on the outside is a scrap of
mahogany.

--Chris

Check out H-frame, the site for vintage Black & Decker Workmates
<https://h-frame.weebly.com/>
276284 Michael Blair <branson2@s...> 2022‑09‑07 Re: what wood for a screen door (and other building thoughts).....
I have to agree with Scott: 

"I assume its regional choices of lumber

 Sugar pine is what I have made many screen doors from here. Light,
strong, holds up to weather.
 People were known to split out shake roofs from sugar pine once, and it
lasts for generations."

One house I lived in was built in 1906 or so.  The screen door was
original to the house.  Sugar pine.  And that's what I used to build
screen doors and window screens for years.  No need to get exotic. 

Mike in Woodland
276285 gary allan may 2022‑09‑07 Re: what wood for a screen door (and other building thoughts).....
Hi Scott---  

  I always hated the door trying to close on me as I navigated through---no
more! I took the closer off the screen door. Never missed it.
  I do have the spring-and-chain thing that catches the door if it blows open;
that's become important now that the the door is otherwise swinging free.

                                 all the best to all galoots everywhere; gam in
OlyWA
  





 

    On Tuesday, September 6, 2022 at 10:18:01 AM PDT, scottg 
wrote:
 
 I assume its regional choices of lumber

  Sugar pine is what I have made many screen doors from here. Light, 
strong, holds up to weather.
  People were known to split out shake roofs from sugar pine once, and 
it lasts for generations.

   Slightly weird. Ponderosa pine (grows right next to sugar)
wouldn't last 2 years.

  1 1/8" is standard classy screen door from my shop.
Commercial doors were often 7/8 or 1"

An old school door spring can be set to about any tension you want.
  I never needed a door spring that could cut off a finger.
  yours scott



-- 
*******************************
    Scott Grandstaff
    Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca  96039
    scottg@s...
    http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/sgrandstaff/
    http://www.snowcrest.net/kitty/hpages/index.html
276286 Dave <dwchat@h...> 2022‑09‑07 Re: what wood for a screen door (and other building thoughts).....
You want a screen door catch, not closer. Its a c shaper metal piece 
with rubber bumpers to catch the door near closed and gently finish 
closing it and lightly holding it shut.  Thats the way I remember them.

-- 
Dave Chatham
CLE/OH
276289 Dave Nighswander <wishingstarfarm663@m...> 2022‑09‑10 Re: what wood for a screen door (and other building thoughts).....
Redwood was the choice for my old house. I made a screen door for the front
porch from a picnic table. That was 20 years ago and last I knew it was still
there.
In my youth there was a door catch made from a rocker with two rubber wheels
that caught the door as it closed and a spring cammed over and latched it shut
with out slamming.
That way the door spring didn’t slam it shut and you could just push or pull the
door open.

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows

From: scottg<mailto:scottg@s...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2022 1:18 PM
To: oldtools@g...<mailto:oldtools@g...>
Subject: Re: [oldtools] what wood for a screen door (and other building
thoughts).....

I assume its regional choices of lumber

  Sugar pine is what I have made many screen doors from here. Light,
strong, holds up to weather.
  People were known to split out shake roofs from sugar pine once, and
it lasts for generations.

   Slightly weird. Ponderosa pine (grows right next to sugar)
wouldn't last 2 years.

  1 1/8" is standard classy screen door from my shop.
Commercial doors were often 7/8 or 1"

An old school door spring can be set to about any tension you want.
  I never needed a door spring that could cut off a finger.
  yours scott



--
*******************************
    Scott Grandstaff
    Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca  96039
    scottg@s...
    https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.snowcre
st.net%2Fkitty%2Fsgrandstaff%2F&data=05%7C01%7C%7Ca5caab486f7e442e007008da90
2bc158%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637980814851803559%7CUnknown
%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3
D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=nGtf36XqS6uGyvnWQ5SymkHoPT%2B428jjR7EAtLgdDrw%3D&
;reserved=0
    https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.snowcre
st.net%2Fkitty%2Fhpages%2Findex.html&data=05%7C01%7C%7Ca5caab486f7e442e00700
8da902bc158%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637980814851803559%7CUn
known%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6
Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=JbZgb8ZRGvzNE30M3WI6nT1liLeBIWTQW%2F4Xz%2F%2Fmh
us%3D&reserved=0
276290 James DuPrie <jbn.duprie@g...> 2022‑09‑10 Re: what wood for a screen door (and other building thoughts).....
thanks for all the input...
While sugar pine sounds like the right solution, around here the only
option is "eastern white pine"
Yellow Poplar is available, but (believe it or not) red oak is the same
price...... Thoughts on poplar vs oak?

thanks

On Sat, Sep 10, 2022 at 5:36 AM Dave Nighswander 
wrote:
276299 Don Schwartz <dks@t...> 2022‑09‑11 Re: what wood for a screen door (and other building thoughts).....
As I understand it, red oak is not durable for exterior usage.

FWIW
Don

On 2022-09-10 3:02 p.m., James DuPrie wrote:
> thanks for all the input...
> While sugar pine sounds like the right solution, around here the only
> option is "eastern white pine"
> Yellow Poplar is available, but (believe it or not) red oak is the same
> price...... Thoughts on poplar vs oak?
>
> thanks
>
> On Sat, Sep 10, 2022 at 5:36 AM Dave Nighswander 
> wrote:
>
>> Redwood was the choice for my old house. I made a screen door for the
>> front porch from a picnic table. That was 20 years ago and last I knew it
>> was still there.
>> In my youth there was a door catch made from a rocker with two rubber
>> wheels that caught the door as it closed and a spring cammed over and
>> latched it shut with out slamming.
>> That way the door spring didn’t slam it shut and you could just push or
>> pull the door open.
>>
>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
>>
>> From: scottg<mailto:scottg@s...>
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2022 1:18 PM
>> To: oldtools@g...<mailto:oldtools@g...>
>> Subject: Re: [oldtools] what wood for a screen door (and other building
>> thoughts).....
>>
>> I assume its regional choices of lumber
>>
>>    Sugar pine is what I have made many screen doors from here. Light,
>> strong, holds up to weather.
>>    People were known to split out shake roofs from sugar pine once, and
>> it lasts for generations.
>>
>>     Slightly weird. Ponderosa pine (grows right next to sugar)
>> wouldn't last 2 years.
>>
>>    1 1/8" is standard classy screen door from my shop.
>> Commercial doors were often 7/8 or 1"
>>
>> An old school door spring can be set to about any tension you want.
>>    I never needed a door spring that could cut off a finger.
>>    yours scott
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *******************************
>>      Scott Grandstaff
>>      Box 409 Happy Camp, Ca  96039
>>      scottg@s...
>>
>> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.snowcres
t.net%2Fkitty%2Fsgrandstaff%2F&data=05%7C01%7C%7Ca5caab486f7e442e007008da902
bc158%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637980814851803559%7CUnknown%
7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D
%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=nGtf36XqS6uGyvnWQ5SymkHoPT%2B428jjR7EAtLgdDrw%3D&
reserved=0
>>
>> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.snowcres
t.net%2Fkitty%2Fhpages%2Findex.html&data=05%7C01%7C%7Ca5caab486f7e442e007008
da902bc158%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637980814851803559%7CUnk
nown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6M
n0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=JbZgb8ZRGvzNE30M3WI6nT1liLeBIWTQW%2F4Xz%2F%2Fmhu
s%3D&reserved=0
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> 
>
>

-- 

Chuck the king - DS

God's away on business - Tom Waits
276303 Bill Ghio 2022‑09‑11 Re: what wood for a screen door (and other building thoughts).....
> On Sep 11, 2022, at 2:08 AM, Don Schwartz  wrote:
> 
> As I understand it, red oak is not durable for exterior usage.

And I would not use poplar either.

Bill
276304 Michael Blair <branson2@s...> 2022‑09‑11 Re: Old key needed
The measured drawing should be sufficient for reproducing the key. 
Hint, make more than one!  I used to know a locksmith who would have
duplicated it, no problem.  I'll check with a local locksmith and see if
he can do this, but a machinist could manage, I'm sure.  I'll talk to
him Monday or Tuesday and let you know. 

Mike in Woodland
276305 James DuPrie <jbn.duprie@g...> 2022‑09‑11 Re: what wood for a screen door (and other building thoughts).....
OK, a bit more detail:
Door will be finished with varnish (probably spar to deal with
temp/humidity changes).

other wood options include:
alder, ash, basswood, birch (yellow or red), butternut, hickory, mahogany,
hard or soft maple, white or red oak, poplar, or eastern white pine.

what would you choose, and why.
(recap: screen door is in a protected location, so won't get more than
occasional wind blown rain or snow, and is not exposed to direct sunlight.
Climate is maine - hot and humid in summer, cold and dry in winter).

-thanks

On Sun, Sep 11, 2022 at 6:49 AM Bill Ghio via groups.io  wrote:
276306 Chris Wolf <hframe79001@g...> 2022‑09‑11 Re: what wood for a screen door (and other building thoughts).....
I would say you should choose whichever of those you like the look of, or
prefer to work with. If possible dents in the door would bother you,
perhaps avoid the softer choices. I wouldn't expect weather resistance to
be any issue at all.

I built a small, two-person dining table for our screened porch twenty
years ago and finished it with Minwax spar varnish. This is in Michigan, so
a somewhat similar climate to yours. The table gets a little wind-blown
rain, but no direct sun. The finish is holding up great and there's not
even any color change to the wood. It happens to be made of redwood
reclaimed from another outdoor project, but since the finish is 100% intact
I'm sure almost any other wood would have been fine also.

--Chris

Check out H-frame, the site for vintage Black & Decker Workmates
<https://h-frame.weebly.com/>
276307 Bill Ghio 2022‑09‑11 Re: what wood for a screen door (and other building thoughts).....
I have had bad luck with outdoor use of red oak and poplar. I would be
comfortable with white pine, hickory, mahogany, hard maple or white oak. The
others I would have to research to know their rot resistance. Protected location
suggest anything will do; go by price, workability and appearance.

Bill
276334 Joe Sullivan <joe@j...> 2022‑09‑15 Re: what wood for a screen door (and other building thoughts).....
Snip

As I understand it, red oak is not durable for exterior usage.
 END SNIP

Quite correct.  Red Oak soaks up water into open pores and rots easily.  White
Oak on the other hand is very durable, largely because its pores are blocked at
frequent intervals, so absorption is limited.

Joe
276335 Joe Sullivan <joe@j...> 2022‑09‑15 Re: what wood for a screen door (and other building thoughts).....
SNIP

other wood options include:
alder, ash, basswood, birch (yellow or red), butternut, hickory, mahogany, hard
or soft maple, white or red oak, poplar, or eastern white pine.

what would you choose, and why.

END SNIP

Basswood is very weak and soft -- would break easily and dents with a tough.
Also rots very quickly.

J

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