OldTools Archive
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275826 | John Ruth <johnrruth@h...> | 2022‑07‑01 | Are these piano tuner's hammers? |
GG's The seller thought these bronze hammers are Piano Tuner's tools: https://www.flickr.com/photos/146046409@N.../52185211621/in/dateposted-public/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/146046409@N.../52184190467/in/dateposted-public One is a loose hammer head with a tang. The other has a female thread about #6 size, which mates with a steel male thread on the wooden handle. I'm a bit skeptical about these being for tuning pianos...what say the Porch? John Ruth |
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275827 | Don Schwartz <dks@t...> | 2022‑07‑01 | Re: Are these piano tuner's hammers? |
They don't remotely resemble any piano tuning hammers I've ever seen. fwiw Don On 2022-06-30 6:51 p.m., John Ruth wrote: > GG's > > The seller thought these bronze hammers are Piano Tuner's tools: > > https://www.flickr.com/photos/146046409@N.../52185211621/in/dateposted-public/ > > https://www.flickr.com/photos/146046409@N.../52184190467/in/dateposted-public > > One is a loose hammer head with a tang. The other has a female thread about #6 size, which mates with a steel male thread on the wooden handle. > > I'm a bit skeptical about these being for tuning pianos...what say the Porch? > > John Ruth > > > > > -- God's away on business - Tom Waits "...it's just a humpty dumpty world" - Ry Cooder |
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275829 | John Ruth <johnrruth@h...> | 2022‑07‑01 | Re: Are these piano tuner's hammers? |
On Thu, Jun 30, 2022 at 11:30 PM, Don Schwartz wrote: > > They don't remotely resemble any piano tuning hammers I've ever seen. > Don, Thanks for that. Another Porch dweller suggested looking at the Studley Tool Chest to see if anything matches. Henry Studley was indeed a piano builder. Whether a builder ever has need for a tuning hammer is not known to me. In any case, watching a few YouTubes about the famous chest did not reveal anything resembling the tools in question. So, still wondering about the identity of these mystery tools. John Ruth |
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275830 | Erik Levin | 2022‑07‑01 | Re: Are these piano tuner's hammers? |
John opened with: >The seller thought these bronze hammers are Piano Tuner's tools: I can't say what they are for, but I don't think they are tuner's hammers (tuner's wrench, tuning lever, and probably several other names are used). I am most certainly not a piano tuner, but I have seen the inside of a lot of instruments and can't see how these would fit any tuning pin, which are usually a male square to accept a four or eight point socket. I'd love to know what they are for, and how they are used, especially if they they are a piano tools. I see no reference in the Studley chest inventory to a tuning tool (1993 FWW inventory), and don't see anything similar in the photos, but I don't know that this provides a meaningful data point, as he worked wood and felt (based on the tool inventory), and I would imagine stringing and tuning was well after, and done by a specialist as it is today. *** This message was sent from a convenience email service, and the reply address(es) may not match the originating address |
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275831 | Don Schwartz <dks@t...> | 2022‑07‑01 | Re: Are these piano tuner's hammers? |
John I have no doubt Studley would have possessed at least one piano hammer. Although in his exhaustive book on topic of the Studley chest and workbench, Don Williams doesn't seem to list one. I did find mention of a 'piano-regulating' tool, but could not find a photo or description of it.... Pianos are strung much like guitars and similar instruments, having a tuning peg which holds tension on the strings. But piano strings require considerable tension, and so a little thumb button such as you see on fiddles and guitars would never do. Instead, they are tightened using a wrench sized to suit the pegs. In my limited experience, they are generally nice things, plated and brass, with turned hardwood, even rosewood handles. Salaman refers to it as a tuning hammer, also spinet hammer and piano wrester. He describes it as "a small key-wrench with a square, star or oblong hole... used for turning the wrest pins on which the ends of the piano wires are wound. The cross handle is sometimes used as a hammer for tapping home the wrest pins when necessary." Why they are called a hammer rather than a wrench is beyond me. Especially since the wooden felt-tipped piano components which strike the strings to sound them are also called piano hammers.... Autoharps are tuned with a similar, but smaller wrench. Harps as well. fwiw Don On 2022-07-01 1:05 p.m., John Ruth wrote: > On Thu, Jun 30, 2022 at 11:30 PM, Don Schwartz wrote: > >> They don't remotely resemble any piano tuning hammers I've ever seen. >> > Don, > > Thanks for that. > > Another Porch dweller suggested looking at the Studley Tool Chest to see if anything matches. Henry Studley was indeed a piano builder. Whether a builder ever has need for a tuning hammer is not known to me. In any case, watching a few YouTubes about the famous chest did not reveal anything resembling the tools in question. > > So, still wondering about the identity of these mystery tools. > > John Ruth > > > > > -- God's away on business - Tom Waits "...it's just a humpty dumpty world" - Ry Cooder |
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275832 | gtgrouch@r... | 2022‑07‑01 | Re: Are these piano tuner's hammers? |
As I recall from watching a tuner, the key wrench was about as long as my forearm, with a solid hand-filling hardwood handle. I remember the tuner using the keys themselves to strike a note. But it's been a long time, Gary Katsanis Albion New York, USA -----------------------------------------From: "Don Schwartz" To: "John Ruth", "old tools list" Cc: Sent: Friday July 1 2022 6:53:17PM Subject: Re: [oldtools] Are these piano tuner's hammers? John I have no doubt Studley would have possessed at least one piano hammer. Although in his exhaustive book on topic of the Studley chest and workbench, Don Williams doesn't seem to list one. I did find mention of a 'piano-regulating' tool, but could not find a photo or description of it.... Pianos are strung much like guitars and similar instruments, having a tuning peg which holds tension on the strings. But piano strings require considerable tension, and so a little thumb button such as you see on fiddles and guitars would never do. Instead, they are tightened using a wrench sized to suit the pegs. In my limited experience, they are generally nice things, plated and brass, with turned hardwood, even rosewood handles. Salaman refers to it as a tuning hammer, also spinet hammer and piano wrester. He describes it as "a small key-wrench with a square, star or oblong hole... used for turning the wrest pins on which the ends of the piano wires are wound. The cross handle is sometimes used as a hammer for tapping home the wrest pins when necessary." Why they are called a hammer rather than a wrench is beyond me. Especially since the wooden felt-tipped piano components which strike the strings to sound them are also called piano hammers.... Autoharps are tuned with a similar, but smaller wrench. Harps as well. fwiw Don On 2022-07-01 1:05 p.m., John Ruth wrote: > On Thu, Jun 30, 2022 at 11:30 PM, Don Schwartz wrote: > >> They don't remotely resemble any piano tuning hammers I've ever seen. >> > Don, > > Thanks for that. > > Another Porch dweller suggested looking at the Studley Tool Chest to see if anything matches. Henry Studley was indeed a piano builder. Whether a builder ever has need for a tuning hammer is not known to me. In any case, watching a few YouTubes about the famous chest did not reveal anything resembling the tools in question. > > So, still wondering about the identity of these mystery tools. > > John Ruth > > > > > -- God's away on business - Tom Waits "...it's just a humpty dumpty world" - Ry Cooder Links: ------ [1] https://groups.io/g/oldtools/unsub |
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275833 | Phil Schempf <philschempf@g...> | 2022‑07‑01 | Re: Are these piano tuner's hammers? |
We were all led astray by our typical connotation of a hammer. There are other types of hammers in a piano, as shown here - https://www.bonanza.com/listings/Piano-Hammer-Head-Smoothing-Iron-Piano-Voicing- Tool/1271947255?goog_pla=1&gpid=177431040541&keyword=&goog_pla=1&pos=&ad_type=pl a&gclid=Cj0KCQjwtvqVBhCVARIsAFUxcRvZPVtKiJ_oeuOQt4KDhEoNr89fjWvxjPRa9-He6WXa8OZ4 fUM3eskaAqp_EALw_wcB Yikes! This one should work, too. Phil http://tinyurl.com/mr3k43hm |
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275834 | Thomas Conroy | 2022‑07‑01 | Re: Are these piano tuner's hammers? |
John Ruth wrote: "The seller thought these bronze hammers are Piano Tuner's tools: https://www.flickr.com/photos/146046409@N.../52185211621/in/dateposted-public/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/146046409@N.../52184190467/in/dateposted-public "One is a loose hammer head with a tang. The other has a female thread about #6 size, which mates with a steel male thread on the wooden handle. "I'm a bit skeptical about these being for tuning pianos...what say the Porch?" It looks like they are made of bronze or maybe brass. The shape is a lot like the offset touchmarks used by jewelers on the insides of finger rings. The tang, and the general shape and presence, is a lot like bookbinders finishing tools (though I doubt they were anything to do with binding because there is no sign of their being used hot). Not likely to be any kind of hammer, as theree is no sign of impact and the shape does not give good support for impact. But my wild- assed guess, worth what yo paid for it, is that they might be some sort of shoemaker's tool for polishing small out-of-the-way areas, like arts of the tops of the welts. After all, isn'the aphorism "When in doubt, it's a leatherworker's tool?" Tom Conroy |
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275835 | Don Schwartz <dks@t...> | 2022‑07‑01 | Re: Are these piano tuner's hammers? |
I suspect that would be used by the piano technician to smooth the felts on the piano hammers. AND I believe you've found the answer to John's question. They're smoothing irons, used to smooth the felts, which are sometimes 'pricked' by the tuner using a 'toning needle' to soften the tone. Thanks again to Salaman! Don On 2022-07-01 5:03 p.m., Phil Schempf wrote: > We were all led astray by our typical connotation of a hammer. There are > other types of hammers in a piano, as shown here - > > https://www.bonanza.com/listings/Piano-Hammer-Head-Smoothing-Iron-Piano- Voicing-Tool/1271947255?goog_pla=1&gpid=177431040541&keyword=&goog_pla=1&pos=&ad _type=pla&gclid=Cj0KCQjwtvqVBhCVARIsAFUxcRvZPVtKiJ_oeuOQt4KDhEoNr89fjWvxjPRa9-He 6WXa8OZ4fUM3eskaAqp_EALw_wcB > > > Yikes! This one should work, too. > > Phil > > http://tinyurl.com/mr3k43hm > > On Fri, Jul 1, 2022 at 2:56 PM |
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275837 | Frank Filippone <bmwred735i@g...> | 2022‑07‑02 | Re: Are these piano tuner's hammers? |
The word VOICING refers to the piano keyboard felt hammers, the things that strike the keys. If your piano has the wrong "VOICING" ( too bright or too dull sound) , then the hammer is too hard or too soft. This is fixed by either smoothing the hammer ( which is what this tool is used for) or it is "plucked" with a thing that looks like a bunch of pins all stuck together. YOU use THIS tool by sticking it into the hammer, causing it to get more ... fluffy..... Our piano needed to be voiced by our tuner and she used the plucked tool to lessen the brightness of the tones. Frank Filippone BMWRed735i@G... |
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275838 | Frank Filippone <bmwred735i@g...> | 2022‑07‑02 | Re: Are these piano tuner's hammers? |
A piano maker is not a tuner. Different skills. A Maker would not necessarily own a tuning hammer... and probably not. Just as a tuner would probably not own a hand plane. Studley being a maker, would probably not own a tuning hammer.... he would have sent the piano over to the tuners and they would string it up and tune it. A regulator is some part inside the piano..... If you wish to follow this thought, look it up.... or go here: https://shacklefordpianos.com/blogs/blog/6-things-about-piano-regulation From that page..... and very nerdy *Regulation is the adjustment of the mechanical aspects of the pianos* to compensate for the effects of wear, *the compacting and settling of cloth, felt, and buckskin, as well as dimensional changes in wood and wool parts due to changes in humidity.* *The three systems involved in regulation are the action, trapwork and damper system.* *The action is the mechanical part of the piano* *that transfers the motion of the fingers on the keys to the hammers that strike the strings.* It is comprised of over 9,000 parts which require adjustment to critical tolerances to be able to respond to a pianist's every command. *The trapwork is the assemblage of levers, dowels and springs* *that connects the pedals to the action affecting sustain and dynamics.* *The damper system is the mechanical part of the piano that stops the vibration of the string* when you release the key and is controlled by the key and pedal systems. Frank Filippone BMWRed735i@G... |
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275839 | Don Schwartz <dks@t...> | 2022‑07‑02 | Re: Are these piano tuner's hammers? |
As I understand it, tuning hammers were used historically both to install the wrest pins in the wrest plank and to adjust them, to bring them all to the same height above the plank. This would have been a maker's task. One end of the tool's head was blunt and shaped like a hammer head, the other end like a wrench. The maker could install the pin with one end of the tool, then turn it over to adjust the height. Don On 2022-07-01 9:12 p.m., Frank Filippone wrote: > > A piano maker is not a tuner. Different skills. > > A Maker would not necessarily own a tuning hammer... and probably not. > > Just as a tuner would probably not own a hand plane. > > Studley being a maker, would probably not own a tuning hammer.... he > would have sent the piano over to the tuners and they would string it > up and tune it. > > A regulator is some part inside the piano..... If you wish to follow > this thought, look it up.... or go here: > > https://shacklefordpianos.com/blogs/blog/6-things-about-piano-regulation > > > From that page..... and very nerdy > > *Regulation is the adjustment of the mechanical aspects of the pianos > *to compensate for the effects of wear,*the compacting and settling of > cloth, felt, and buckskin, as well as dimensional changes in wood and > wool parts due to changes in humidity. * > > *The three systems involved in regulation are the action, trapwork and > damper system.* > > *The action is the mechanical part of the piano* *that transfers the > motion of the fingers on the keys to the hammers that strike the > strings.* It is comprised of over 9,000 parts which require adjustment > to critical tolerances to be able to respond to a pianist's every command. > > *The trapwork is the assemblage of levers, dowels and springs* *that > connects the pedals to the action affecting sustain and dynamics. * > > *The damper system is the mechanical part of the piano that stops the > vibration of the string* when you release the key and is controlled by > the key and pedal systems. > > > Frank Filippone > BMWRed735i@G... > On 7/1/2022 12:53 PM, Don Schwartz wrote: >> John >> >> I have no doubt Studley would have possessed at least one piano >> hammer. Although in his exhaustive book on topic of the Studley chest >> and workbench, Don Williams doesn't seem to list one. I did find >> mention of a 'piano-regulating' tool, but could not find a photo or >> description of it.... >> >> Pianos are strung much like guitars and similar instruments, having a >> tuning peg which holds tension on the strings. But piano strings >> require considerable tension, and so a little thumb button such as >> you see on fiddles and guitars would never do. Instead, they are >> tightened using a wrench sized to suit the pegs. In my limited >> experience, they are generally nice things, plated and brass, with >> turned hardwood, even rosewood handles. Salaman refers to it as a >> tuning hammer, also spinet hammer and piano wrester. He describes it as >> >> "a small key-wrench with a square, star or oblong hole... used for >> turning the wrest pins on which the ends of the piano wires are >> wound. The cross handle is sometimes used as a hammer for tapping >> home the wrest pins when necessary." >> >> Why they are called a hammer rather than a wrench is beyond me. >> Especially since the wooden felt-tipped piano components which strike >> the strings to sound them are also called piano hammers.... Autoharps >> are tuned with a similar, but smaller wrench. Harps as well. >> >> fwiw >> Don >> >> On 2022-07-01 1:05 p.m., John Ruth wrote: >>> On Thu, Jun 30, 2022 at 11:30 PM, Don Schwartz wrote: >>> >>>> They don't remotely resemble any piano tuning hammers I've ever seen. >>>> >>> Don, >>> >>> Thanks for that. >>> >>> Another Porch dweller suggested looking at the Studley Tool Chest to >>> see if anything matches. Henry Studley was indeed a piano builder. >>> Whether a builder ever has need for a tuning hammer is not known to >>> me. In any case, watching a few YouTubes about the famous chest did >>> not reveal anything resembling the tools in question. >>> >>> So, still wondering about the identity of these mystery tools. >>> >>> John Ruth >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> -- God's away on business - Tom Waits "...it's just a humpty dumpty world" - Ry Cooder |
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275842 | John Ruth <johnrruth@h...> | 2022‑07‑02 | Re: Are these piano tuner's hammers? |
Phil, Thank you! You have hit the bullseye!!! It's a Piano Hammer Head Smoothing Iron. That "Tune Piano Supply" storefront in Bonanza also has the answer to another tool mystery presented by same Flea Market vendor! As he was selling the "Smoothing Irons" to me, he asked me if I could identify another tool he had. Thanks to you, I now know that it is a "Piano Hammer Butt Plate Inserter." Somehow, I just knew that the collective knowledge and wisdom of the Porch would be able to identify those oddball tools! Thanks, again John Ruth |
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275844 | Erik Levin | 2022‑07‑02 | Re: Are these piano tuner's hammers? |
(just got done with work and had a chance to look at the list. A LOT of data in this thread. Nice) Today I learned another tool. Awesome. Thank you Phil for ID'ing this and adding another bit of data to the bucket-of-bits I call a brain. I have never seen the hammers serviced, though I have seen a number of instruments tuned. *** This message was sent from a convenience email service, and the reply address(es) may not match the originating address |
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